The Church Service

Post Reply
Haole
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:44 pm

The Church Service

Post by Haole » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:53 am

Is today's Church service doing the job that Christians are supposed to be doing?

The worship service seems to be geared toward both the body and to the unbelieving visitor. A message is given, an alter call is extended, and some come down and say the sinner's prayer. Are we counting on that worship service to do the thing we're supposed to be doing every day?

Do we go out into the world, rub shoulders with our pals, show them how "normal" we are? That we can dress like them and act like them. After all, God forgives. It feels like that is where we're at. We want to act as worldy as we can and not get burned, or maybe do ( I speak from experience) and show our unbelieving friends that God isn't a bad God that expects anything weird out of us. You won't be asked to change. Then we invite them to our "cool" new church that everyone's talking about. Then they go forward for the alter call, and maybe get baptized (if they're doing them that weekend).

I think that's creating a body of believers that has had seed sprinkled on them.

And when temptations, troubles, or repetitive sin comes along and snatches the seed away, we aren't equipped to counsel them. We look to the Pastor, after all we're just a body of seed-sprinkled people.

Is the getting together of the body supposed to be a getting together of fruit-bearing citizens of the Kingdom?

Have the worship services taken the responsibilty off of our backs and placed them on one man-the Pastor. And has the Thursday night Study in James become the gathering of the body?

Thoughts?

User avatar
steve
Posts: 3338
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:45 pm

Re: The Church Service

Post by steve » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:37 pm

I think your concerns are shared by many—including many at this forum. This is fruitful thinking. Now to find solutions!

User avatar
TK
Posts: 1475
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:42 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: The Church Service

Post by TK » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:55 pm

AW Tozer would certainly agree, and I do as well.

And I am looking forward to reading suggested solutions. I have found that generally there are "remnants" in most churches of people who are really looking to go deeper etc etc and that these people tend to gravitate toward each other, and often do things together outside the church structure to move forward in the faith. We all must take our own responsibility for growing in the Lord. The problem of getting people to move beyond the surfacy stuff has existed for a long time; the only solution that I believe works is genuine revival.

So, we need to be praying for revival at the personal level, moving outward.

TK

Haole
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:44 pm

Re: The Church Service

Post by Haole » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:07 pm

T.K.,
I like the term "personal revival".

I believe that the anger I see from Islam stems from a God that doesn't hear nor answer them. They get frustrated and act out. Their religion is not alive and must act out to accomplish the things that they desire...getting back at the "other guys".

I believe that the anger I see from occupiers stems from a system that does not deliver to them the things they seek. Eventually the money runs out. They act like cornered animals because they are seeing right in front of them, in Europe and here, that to take from one and give to another isn't effective. They have to riot and act out agressively or sometimes "passive agressively" to accomplish the things they desire...getting back at the "other guys".

And I see myself running around looking at people, privately judging them wheteher they are saved or not, wondering what to do. Members of my family are not saved, so I go to them and quote Bible verses to them with sarcastic barbs attached. I get frustrated and act out. I get aggressive, emotional, and say things I have to apologize for later. I act as if my God doesn't hear or answer. But he does. I believe, as in one of Steve's messages about war, that we need to go to our knees and pray for our people when attacked, instead of bombing the attackers out of existence. That approach seems counter-intuitive, but I do believe that that is how God would have us deal with an attack. We give it to him and trust him to deliver us. We can't give it to him and when it doesn't look like he's acting the way we think he should, then we act out. So I felt like God spoke to me this morning about this. He asked, "How do you feel about the pray instead of bomb theory?" I said, "I think it's correct". Then he said, "So how about that same approach when you are dealing with an unsaved family member or loved one? Do you bomb them with arguments?" I said, "No" And then I said, "If I give it to you 100 percent, then I expect you to honor that." (and he has always honored his word in my life so I felt I could speak boldly about this) so Then he said, "You can expect it, if I can expect you to keep your mouth closed and your heart open". Now he may have said, "Mouth" but in my mind I heard "pie hole". I laughed. I must pray and not bomb.

Personal Revival!

User avatar
jriccitelli
Posts: 1317
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:14 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: The Church Service

Post by jriccitelli » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:58 am

The Church service; This subject is on my mind above all other biblical problems because of the following questions;
Why is it that most people have quit going to Church?
Why is it that the Church is so Biblically illiterate?
Why is it that people do not know their fellow church members anymore?
Why does the Church not seem to reflect the Church in Acts, yet at the same time so many Christians long for the Church in Acts? :)

There are many reasons for this, but it seems as if the Church has no answer, or desire, to fix the problem, why is this?
We witnessed the death of the Church in Europe, and we may be headed to the same end as between 50-80% of our children leave the Church, and fewer join.
What's the problem? Is God the problem? No. We can blame the culture, but culture was a problem for the early church as it is now in unchristian countries but the Church often overcomes that. So what about Church countries?

The problem is 'Pastors', and pews.
I thought Jesus said go into the world and make disciples, I do not generally see Pastors making disciples (If you are a pastor who is doing so, good, and let me know). 'Once' I had a pastor who asked me if he could disciple me, and he met me for breakfast a few times. I sensed the lead pastor told him it was his duty to find 'someone' to disciple and proceeded to use some dumb book (yeah I said it) with me instead of a Bible. :shock:
I don’t know if Jesus meant to go into the world and be family counselor, or if he meant go to seminary where you can learn to lead a group of people to sing and not move while you lull them asleep while listening to you talk directly 'to each of them' amongst a crowd of two hundred. :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :cry: :| :| :|

I think the problem is the church service also;
And the biggest problem is the invention of the pew; the church is forced to focus on the speaker from the time you come in until it is time to file out. Sure the pastors tell you to turn around and greet someone but this is an extremely poor substitute for fellowship and a difficult task when your body is stuck facing forward. And asking a meaningful question would be pointless because you know they are going to start the music any second and drown you out.
My solution is the table; remember when folks sat around a table? :idea:
If the pastor had done his job there would be enough willing disciples to facilitate, or help lead, small table fellowships the way it would be if you were meeting in a home or in a restaurant. I know this sounds outrageous to some, and sitting around tables is pretty difficult to arrange and enforce, but put a table with some chairs around it in a room and see if the fellowship isn't better than a hundred rooms full of pews and speakers.

Prior to the invention of the steam engine and automobile most people did not travel much further than they could walk or horseback so communities were small and most all the people of a community knew each other 'before' they went to church, nowadays nobody knows anyone unless they purposely are introduced. The idea that we are building a church community simply by going to church is practically absurd. I know people who go to church sit, get up and leave thinking they went to church. If you have not participated in fellowship and relationship with your brothers and sisters you have not had ecclesia and the experience of knowing and enjoying what God had truly purposed for the Church. :)
I propose; ten minutes of sermon and direction in Gods Word, then people go through study questions and scripture 'together' at their own tables. A lot of us have done this in church for study classes. But 80% of people never participate in group fellowship, instead they hastily make it to 'service' then hurry back home, week after week until the effects of non-fellowship (and not being a real part of the body) has its consequences, resulting in spiritual underdevelopment and or disinterest in church and God. :cry:

I can not stand to sit through another service and sermon (sermons that are so generally simplistic) that otherwise 'could' have included at least an hour of fellowship. Fellowship at church usually ends up being 10 minutes of casual 'how do you dos' in the lobby, at best. This is not what church was meant to be. This is not all the body of Christ was, or is, capable of. People cannot answer; 'who is my neighbor?', they really don’t know.

Roberto
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: The Church Service

Post by Roberto » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:24 pm

What I noticed in going back to church buildings just recently after a hiatus, is that the focus (at least where I was attending) is on education, in other words telling people what the Scriptures say. The interaction was minimal, the personal connection hard to find. They would do better, in my opinion by just going out to breakfast together, getting to know each other and praying together. The church will grow through friendships more than just sermons. People can hear thos on the Internet, but to find people that want to connect about their lives seems tough. Why are we so scared to get to know each other?

User avatar
mattrose
Posts: 1909
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:28 am
Contact:

Re: The Church Service

Post by mattrose » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:40 pm

The non-interactive worship service would actually be fine if 'the church' was actively being 'the church' the rest of the week. I don't know that we can blame the 1 hour worship service for failing the church.

If a Christian is, on a daily basis, interacting with fellow believers, reaching out to lost people, etc... then they may find the 20 minutes of corporate singing and 20-40 minute message a helpful and meaningful time. If, on the other hand, a Christian is hoping to get out of the 1 hour worship service all their discipleship and fellowship... they will surely be disappointed.

Sunday morning in America has problems, but it is not THE problem.

Roberto
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: The Church Service

Post by Roberto » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:17 am

mattrose wrote:The non-interactive worship service would actually be fine if 'the church' was actively being 'the church' the rest of the week. I don't know that we can blame the 1 hour worship service for failing the church.

If a Christian is, on a daily basis, interacting with fellow believers, reaching out to lost people, etc... then they may find the 20 minutes of corporate singing and 20-40 minute message a helpful and meaningful time. If, on the other hand, a Christian is hoping to get out of the 1 hour worship service all their discipleship and fellowship... they will surely be disappointed.

Sunday morning in America has problems, but it is not THE problem.

Kind of like a symptom of something deeper: fear of connection.
But if the "rest of the week* is virtually un-emphasized, then the balance is way off. Why do we leave each other out in the cold to find "discipleship and fellowship"? Why does it not have the emphasis that the teaching lecture (often indeed a lecture with no checks and balances asked for or explored) does? I intuit that we fear being close as a family in a radical New Testament sense and we are being culturally conditioned.
Finding interactive believers isn't all that easy- do you find that it is? Maybe online it is, so it is here that I go.....

User avatar
mattrose
Posts: 1909
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:28 am
Contact:

Re: The Church Service

Post by mattrose » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:34 am

I think some churches do an adequate-to-good job at this. I'm thinking specifically of Bruxy Cavey's church where he allows for some Q&A at the end of many of his messages and then has 'home-group' study questions built right onto his sermon handout. Everyone is encouraged to participate in one of these home groups and they can use the study questions to launch their conversation. He also provides a 'drive-home' audio that includes things he thought about and learned in preparation for his sermon that he didn't have time to say. All in all, I feel like he's done a good job of making the Sunday morning experience a launching pad into more intense discipleship.

Roberto
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: The Church Service

Post by Roberto » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:35 am

mattrose wrote:I think some churches do an adequate-to-good job at this. I'm thinking specifically of Bruxy Cavey's church where he allows for some Q&A at the end of many of his messages and then has 'home-group' study questions built right onto his sermon handout. Everyone is encouraged to participate in one of these home groups and they can use the study questions to launch their conversation. He also provides a 'drive-home' audio that includes things he thought about and learned in preparation for his sermon that he didn't have time to say. All in all, I feel like he's done a good job of making the Sunday morning experience a launching pad into more intense discipleship.
Why not just let others freely ask questions vs. him choosing? Freedom is a good thing, I think.
Do we have to run things like a school or a business vs a family?

Post Reply

Return to “Fellowship & Worship”