Father Forgive Them....?

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Re: Father Forgive Them....?

Post by Homer » Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:45 pm

A further thought (or two) on this subject:

Jesus uttered those awful words: "he that believeth not shall be condemned". Those who crucified Jesus had a big problem, a damning problem that caused them to participate in the death of Jesus. That problem was unbelief, and it was the root cause of their sin of crucifying the Messiah. If Jesus meant for God to forgive them of crucifying Him while they remained in a state of unbelief, what benefit would that be to them? They would continue to be damned for unbelief.

I can see two possible answers. One is that the meaning of forgive (aphiemi) according to Zodhiates is "not to disregard them (sins) and do nothing about them, but to liberate a person from them, their guilt, and their power". If Zodhiates' definition is correct, then my point in my original post is sustained: their forgiveness occured on the day of Pentecost when they repented.

Another possibility I have thought of is that Jesus was asking God to forgive this one sin and not harden them further, or "write them off", so that there might be a possibility of their coming to repentance in the future. I think this is the least likely of the two.

Jesus did not mean to teach us that we must forgive others while they persist, unrepentant, in sin against us. This is not to confuse loving with forgiving.

As always, please show me from the scriptures if I am in error regarding this most important matter.


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Re: Father Forgive Them....?

Post by darinhouston » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:48 pm

I haven't read this entire thread, but I understand Luke 17:3-4 and Mark 11:25 to be instructive.
Luke 17:3-4 wrote: 17:3 Watch 6  yourselves! If 7  your brother 8  sins, rebuke him. If 9  he repents, forgive him. 17:4 Even if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times returns to you saying, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive 10  him.”
This suggest that we do not simply forgive all who sin against us automatically, and that their true repentance is a condition of our forgiveness.

However, Mark 11:25 doesn't have such a condition...
Mark 11:25 wrote:. 11:25 Whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven will 37 also forgive you your sins.”
So, how does the conditional forgiveness in Luke 17 differ from that unconditional forgiveness discussed in Mark 11?

Perhaps, there are two types (or aspects) of forgiveness. The first is unconditional - a forgiveness of the heart or will (a decision -- no restoration, but no grudge); and the second, a more formal restoration of the relationship upon repentance.

Luke 17 tells us what to do if our brother does repent, but does not tell us what to do if he does not repent.

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