Women in Ministry (and in the home)

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dwight92070
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Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:09 am

Re: Women in Ministry (and in the home)

Post by dwight92070 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:03 pm

Dizerner,

I found what you just posted to be very clear, which is why I can definitely say that I don't agree with it. No one here has said that Paul was sinless. Rather, he was appointed by Jesus to be an apostle and we are called to submit to the teaching of the apostles, in the New Testament, as well as the teaching of Jesus Himself. Paul wrote almost 30 percent of the New Testament. If we can't trust what he said, then our life as a follower of Jesus will suffer immensely. Jesus gave Paul great revelations and understanding of Jesus Himself, and of the church, and our Christian walk. Jesus revealed to Paul ALONE what the qualifications for an elder (same as a pastor or elder) would be. If we don't go by that, then we open the door to anybody becoming an elder, besides the sin of disobeying a God-appointed apostle. In fact, Paul ALONE taught us that the church should even have an elder.

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darinhouston
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Women in Ministry (and in the home)

Post by darinhouston » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:44 pm

dwight92070 wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:03 pm
Dizerner,

I found what you just posted to be very clear, which is why I can definitely say that I don't agree with it. No one here has said that Paul was sinless. Rather, he was appointed by Jesus to be an apostle and we are called to submit to the teaching of the apostles, in the New Testament, as well as the teaching of Jesus Himself. Paul wrote almost 30 percent of the New Testament. If we can't trust what he said, then our life as a follower of Jesus will suffer immensely. Jesus gave Paul great revelations and understanding of Jesus Himself, and of the church, and our Christian walk. Jesus revealed to Paul ALONE what the qualifications for an elder (same as a pastor or elder) would be. If we don't go by that, then we open the door to anybody becoming an elder, besides the sin of disobeying a God-appointed apostle. In fact, Paul ALONE taught us that the church should even have an elder.
Again I'm in violent agreement with Dwight. I tend to think about the Apostles like Catholics think of the Pope when speaking ex cathedra. I don't agree with apostolic succession, but I do believe in apostolic authority. They were both filled with the Holy Spirit, influenced, trained, anointed and blessed by Jesus, himself, to speak on his behalf to the extent that whatever they "loosed" on earth would be "loosed" in heaven. When I read their words (unless they say the speak of their own initiative), I take it as the authority of the "sinless one" himself. Derivative authority, but real actual authority.

And even if they are speaking of their own initiative, there is no better and more trustworthy guide for our lives. If I err, I err on the side of taking their word and following their advice.

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darinhouston
Posts: 2814
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Women in Ministry (and in the home)

Post by darinhouston » Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:59 am

darinhouston wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:44 pm
dwight92070 wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:03 pm
Dizerner,

I found what you just posted to be very clear, which is why I can definitely say that I don't agree with it. No one here has said that Paul was sinless. Rather, he was appointed by Jesus to be an apostle and we are called to submit to the teaching of the apostles, in the New Testament, as well as the teaching of Jesus Himself. Paul wrote almost 30 percent of the New Testament. If we can't trust what he said, then our life as a follower of Jesus will suffer immensely. Jesus gave Paul great revelations and understanding of Jesus Himself, and of the church, and our Christian walk. Jesus revealed to Paul ALONE what the qualifications for an elder (same as a pastor or elder) would be. If we don't go by that, then we open the door to anybody becoming an elder, besides the sin of disobeying a God-appointed apostle. In fact, Paul ALONE taught us that the church should even have an elder.
Again I'm in violent agreement with Dwight. I tend to think about the Apostles like Catholics think of the Pope when speaking ex cathedra. I don't agree with apostolic succession, but I do believe in apostolic authority. They were both filled with the Holy Spirit, influenced, trained, anointed and blessed by Jesus, himself, to speak on his behalf to the extent that whatever they "loosed" on earth would be "loosed" in heaven. When I read their words (unless they say the speak of their own initiative), I take it as the authority of the "sinless one" himself. Derivative authority, but real actual authority.

And even if they are speaking of their own initiative, there is no better and more trustworthy guide for our lives. If I err, I err on the side of taking their word and following their advice.
I had another thought on this worthy of some consideration - consider how you would treat a statement by Jesus if he said something like Paul, namely "I have no word from the Father on this, but I tell you from my own perspective that we should seek to _____"?

We modern Westerners should probably consider how our sense of "Agency" (and subordination) has changed over the ages. If I'm in a monarchy and the crown prince comes to my village with a command or desire - who am I to question it? If the prince sends a royal messenger bearing the signet, as far as my own insignificant self is concerned, I am receiving that message from the King himself as much so as if the King had rode into my village and spoken directly to me. If the messenger steps outside his official Agency and says -- well, don't lay this on the king, but my personal opinion is ___... I think we would do well to heed that as well unless it conflicts with an edict from or priority of the King.

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