Head coverings

[Guest]

This discussion topic was prompted by loaves in his post here:
http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=652
...regarding a ministry with which he finds agreement.

Here is a link to their beliefs (i.e. statement of faith) of which I find much in agreement with myself.
http://www.charityministries.org/confession.cfm

However, I find difficulty with the position that head-coverings for women is a commandment of scripture for all times and cultures in the New Covenant.

The only scripture that I know of that points to this practice is 1 Corinthians 11:2-16.

Do you find this section of scripture to be a universal command or a specificity of culture?
Why?

[Guest]

I was just thinking about this yesterday, and here's what I decided: If I had a husband and he wanted me to wear a head covering, I would. Since I don't have a husband, I'm not inclined to wear one. I cut my hair, too, which I wouldn't do either if a husband asked me not to.

I often read that in order to understand the Bible you have to realize that it was written in a different culture with different mentalities about the roles of men and women. However, I find that it is amazing that the Bible seems to transcend culture and I find the literature very approachable from the culture I find myself in now.

That said, I think the passage in I Corinthians 11 is an exception and was based in that specific, ancient culture. And I think the passage says so itself:

13 Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him? 15 But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given *to her for a covering. 16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.

By the way, doesn't it seem like this part of the passage says that a woman's long hair IS her head covering? Myself, I would probably (out of pride) cover my hair if I grew it long because my hair is thin and stringy and does not look good long.

I was going to add something about never feeling led by the Spirit to grow out my hair nor wear a head covering, but while I was typing this we had a little earthquake. Coincidence?

[Guest]

I was going to add something about never feeling led by the Spirit to grow out my hair nor wear a head covering, but while I was typing this we had a little earthquake. Coincidence?

As frequent as earthquakes are in California, viewing each as a message from God regarding the momentary thought or topic would lead to many whacky ideas.

[Guest]

In 1 Corinthians 11, Paul went into great detail as to why a woman should have her head veiled when she prays or prophesies. Doesn’t it seem a little odd that after giving that instruction in such detail that he would conclude with the following words?

But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.

Surely Paul is not saying that the apostles and the churches of God have no such custom as women wearing a veil! If that were the case, why would he write all these things to show that they should veil their heads when they pray or prophesy. I think Paul is saying that the apostles and the churches of God have no such custom as being contentious.

Let’s examine the passage carefully, trying to learn what the apostle was saying. I believe his instructions transcend local customs, and are meant to be applied universally among Christ’s disciples.

1 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.

It is okay to imitate a Godly person such as Paul. For he imitates Christ. Though the word comes from the noun “mimos” [actor] it does not mean [in my opinion] an outward thing [“Monkey see; monkey do”], but rather to imitate Paul in the sense that Paul means it, is to become like Paul so that when we do what Paul does it’s not an outward copying, but it the new self who has become like him.

2 I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you.

Paul commends them for maintaining the traditions as he delivered them to the Corinthians. What traditions? He deals with two of them in this chapter: women veiling their heads, and the love feast (Lord’s Supper) and the communion that follows it. Though in general they maintained these traditions, there were some aberrations. Not all women wore the devotional head covering or veil. Some people came to the love feast just to be able to eat and drink wine and get drunk. Then they ate the bread and drank the wine of the communion in an unworthy manner.

3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God.

Paul speaks here of an order of authority: God, Christ, man, woman. Presumably the head of a woman is not just any man, but the man, that is her man ---- her husband.

4 Any man who praying or prophesying having anything down over his head dishonours his head,

When a man covers his head while praying or prophesying, he dishonours his head ----- Christ. Why should that dishonour Christ? Because he “is the image and glory of God” [see verse 7]

5 but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled (not covered down) dishonours her head—it is the same as if her head were shaven.

A woman praying or prophesying with her head unveiled dishonours her head ---- her husband. Why should that dishonour her husband? Because she is the glory of her husband [see verse 7]

6 For if a woman is unveiled, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let be veiled.

I will now skip to verse 13.

13 Judge for yourselves; is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head unveiled?
14 Does not nature itself teach you that for a man has long hair is degrading to him,

Nature has made a man to be a man —- not a woman. If he allows his hair to grow long in an effeminate way like a woman’s, it is degrading to him.

15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her pride? For her hair is given to her for a shawl [literally “a throw-around”]

After all this instruction that a woman ought to be veiled, would it be reasonable for Paul to now say that her hair is her veil, so she doesn’t have to veil herself after all? No. Paul used a different Greek word, “peribolaion” to describe a woman’s long hair, a word which literally means “a throw-around”. The Greek word translated as “to veil” , which a woman ought to do when praying or prophesying is “katakalupto” which literally means “to cover down”.

[Guest]

After doing some further research and reading the text of 1 Corinthians 11 several times, I see a tension at what would seem a cultural symbol and the reasons of Paul for headcoverings for wives transcend culture.

However, I found the following article
http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1202
...that examines 4 different approaches to the passage:

• 1) No Applicability for today
  2) Headcovering is the Hair
  3) Real Headcovering is applicable for today
  4) Meaningful Symbol view

I found the Meaningful Symbol View (to which the author also holds) to most able to ease the tension I describe above.

Thoughts?

[Guest]

At my website, at the "Topical Articles" link, I have written extensively on this passage (a two-part article called "Headcoverings and Women"). I come down on the side of a meaningful symbol. I obviously won't be contributing to this thread, since I have said everything I have to say on this subject elsewhere.

[Guest]

...and there it was, right in front of me.

Thanks Steve. I look forward to reading it.

[Guest]

I was going to add something about never feeling led by the Spirit to grow out my hair nor wear a head covering, but while I was typing this we had a little earthquake. Coincidence?

As frequent as earthquakes are in California, viewing each as a message from God regarding the momentary thought or topic would lead to many whacky ideas.

No kidding.

[Guest]

Paidion wrote:

Surely Paul is not saying that the apostles and the churches of God have no such custom as women wearing a veil! If that were the case, why would he write all these things to show that they should veil their heads when they pray or prophesy. I think Paul is saying that the apostles and the churches of God have no such custom as being contentious.

I don't know Paidion. That seems like kind of a stretch. I've never heard of anyone having a "custom" of being contentious. Then again, the modern church seems to have that custom, doesn't it?

[Guest]

Paidion wrote:

Surely Paul is not saying that the apostles and the churches of God have no such custom as women wearing a veil! If that were the case, why would he write all these things to show that they should veil their heads when they pray or prophesy. I think Paul is saying that the apostles and the churches of God have no such custom as being contentious.

I don't know Paidion. That seems like kind of a stretch. I've never heard of anyone having a "custom" of being contentious. Then again, the modern church seems to have that custom, doesn't it?

I agree with Paidion and I don't think it's a stretch. In the U.S.A. (where I live), and up until the 1940s, almost all women wore a headcovering to church services. Even though it may have been a little ornate for my liking. It wasn't until not too long ago, that women started uncovering.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

This was what I was going to say:

I realize this is a controversial issue among many folks today. I know Steve Gregg’s position on the issue, and I am in partial agreement. I disagree with him in some minor areas.

I agree with Michelle that husbands and wives should approach the issue together, and together reach a conclusion.

Let me step up on my soapbox, may I? I don’t wish to step on anyone’s toes!!

<b>Headcovering in the Past</b>
First I want everyone to know that up until the 1900s and the “Women’s Liberation” movement, a good fraction of all women in the U.S.A. wore some form of headcovering. Even the pagans.

And up until the 1940s, almost all women wore a headcovering to church services. Even though it may have been a little ornate for my liking.

And, historically, all women of most cultures have been covering their heads ever since the days of Adam and Eve. My source for this information is a scholarly book I recommend to everyone called “Let Her Be Veiled” by Tom Shank, available from http://www.charityministries.org.

A lot of my other material comes from the tract “The Veiling, a Symbol of Divine Order” by Ken Witmer.

<b>God is a God of Order</b>
The God we serve is a God of Order. God planned order in the family. It is interesting that right before Paul, delves into the issue he writes “But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.” 1 Cor. 11:3.

This is the order God has set up for us. When man attempts to “improve” upon God’s order, frustration will always result. 1 Cor. 11 teaches the order of “headship.” God also exhorts us to symbolize this order by keeping man’s head uncovered and by veiling woman’s head. It is a mark of submission to God.

<b>God’s Headship</b>
“The head of Christ is God.” Consider the relationship between God and Christ. “I and my Father are one.” Jesus is the vessel through whom the Father works. Because of this submission, we get a beautiful example of cooperation, partnership in the Godhead.

From many scriptures we plainly see that God the Father’s leadership. There is a oneness and equality between Father and Son, but with a mutual agreement for the Father to lead.

To put this is perspective the order is God > Christ > man > woman. Woman, who is submitting to man, who is submitted to Christ, who is submitted to God, submits to all three.

Man and women are equals in God’s eyes. But there is order in submission.

<b>Symbols of God’s Order</b>
God has given us symbols of this submission. Man’s symbol is short, cut hair and an uncovered head, whereas woman’s symbol is long hair and a covered head.

<b>Man’s Symbols</b>
“Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head”

So man should, while praying, uncover his head. What is his covering? His hair? If it was his hair, he would have to shave it off. Some folks suggest that, since some women cover all the time, men should never have their hair covered. See below on that issue.

In our society, those of us who live in the U.S.A., respectable men do not wear long hair. Police officers, judges, etc., are encouraged to cut their hair short. Hence a respectable man is called “clean cut.” Long hair on a man draws attention. Instead of glorifying God, long hair on men is glorifying the hair and the man.

<b>Woman’s Symbols</b>
“But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.”

A woman’s symbols is the reverse of the man. When a woman prays or prophesies with an uncovered head, she dishonors her head. What head? Man > Christ > God. All three!

Eastern women have a long, long, LONG standing tradition of wearing a veil. Both men and women wore tunics and clocks, but the distinctive apparel was the veiling for women. All women except those in a very low condition of life (female slaves, prostitutes, etc.) wore veils.

The mark of a prostitute was that she didn’t wear a veil—the better to attract men.

Paul’s use of the two words “shorn” and “shaven” makes an appeal to the standards of his day to teach the shame of being uncovered. “Shorn” means to “cut the hair.” Apparently, in Eastern cultures, immoral women would cut and style their hair. “Shave” means to “shave with a razor,” which was how immoral women were punished in Paul’s day.

Eastern or Western, immoral or not, every woman here, who lives in the U.S.A. can testify to the shame and disgrace of having her hair shaved off with a razor.

Paul is saying that a woman who uncovers her head is as shameful as being shaven. When a woman displays her hair, it dishonors her head. What head? Man > Christ > God. All three!

In our day, the shame for women to cut their hair has been unfortunately lost. In context with Corinthians, to cut hair identifies one with those who were immoral, punishable by shaving the head.

So when Paul says, “if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn,” he was <b><i>not</i></b> suggesting that either option was acceptable. He equated the shame to cut hair and the resulting punishment, with an uncovered head.

But the question we are discussing is not whether to cut the hair. The original question was whether or not to veil the hair. Because of the natural shame of cut hair, Paul could say that an uncovered head was as shameful as begin “shorn.” And because of the natural shame of a shaved head, Paul could say that an uncovered head was a shameful as begin “shaven.”

A woman who cuts her hair dishonors her head. What head? Man > Christ > God. All three! “Doth not even nature itself teach you…”

A woman’s hair is not for display. Although she may not realize it, most men are VERY attracted to a woman’s hair.

“Woman is the glory of the man” 1 Cor. 11:7

As woman submits to man, she glorifies her head. What head? Man > Christ > God. All three!

She testifies of this submission by veiling her hair. Her veiled head is a practical reminder that she is under the authority of man, whose unveiled head testifies of his honor and submission to God.

A woman’s role is not degraded or inferior. A woman filling her God-given role is honored in the Bible.

<b>Is My Hair My Covering???</b>
Now we come to the controversy.

“But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering”

Yes, her hair is <b><i>a</i></b> covering, but look at the Greek. It isn’t <b></i>the</i></b> covering referred to in verses 4-7. <b>“The”</b> covering mentioned in verses 4-7, means “to cover.” In verse 15 we have a completely different Greek word, a noun. The covering in verses 4-7 is something to be put on. The covering in verse 15 is something that is already on.

Muse with me for a bit.

Suppose a woman’s hair is her prayer covering. Then a man would have to shave his head to be uncovered. Also, there is a paradox in verse 6:

“For if the woman be not covered [her hair removed], let her also be shorn”

Wait a second!! How can she cut her hair if it has already been removed?? It’s like saying “If a woman shaves her head bald, she needs to shave her head bald.” It doesn’t make sense. Clearly, is it speaking of a covering to cover the hair.

But why is the hair called a covering then? It <i><b>is</b></i> a covering! It is a covering of glory. A woman’s hair is a glory the covers her head. What head? Man > Christ > God. All three!

Man was made in the image and glory of God. Woman is the glory of the man. A woman’s glory is her hair. Woman is to cover her glory [her hair], to give all the glory to God. Man, woman’s head, is visible; therefore she dishonors man as her head when she uncovers her head. To uncover her head is a display of human glory in competition with the glory that belongs to God. Just like heavenly beings cover themselves with wings. Eze. 1:11, Isaiah 6:2. It seems they covered their glory to give it all to God.

Woman must cover her glory so that she does not compete with God’s glory by dishonoring man as her appointed head.

<b>Covering because of Modesty</b>
The principles of modesty apply here to. Woman who display their beauty to appeal to men, draw men away from their created purpose. It appeals to their base nature. Man doesn’t bring glory to God when he is lusting after a woman. So, for modesty’s sake, her hair must be kept covered. Even as the rest of her body is covered.

<b>“Power on her head”</b>
“For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels”

A veiled woman has “power” on her head. “Power” in the Greek means “privilege, delegated influence, freedom, authority.” A woman in her place, under the authority of man, has freedom and authority.

<b>Should it be all the time??</b>
We deduce from Corinthians that a woman must wear a covering when praying or prophesying. 1 Thessalonians 5:17 exhorts us to “pray without ceasing.” Prayer is not always a formal getting down on our knees, folding our hands, and praying. Praying is talking with God. Prayer is communication with God. And that communication should not be broken for single moment. Praying is expressing need. Prophesying is declaring the will and mind of God.

Christian sisters are always to be submitted to divine order, always to be modest, always to be in communication with God, and are always to be prophesying the will of God to their children and fellow sisters. Therefore, they should always wear a veiling.

<b>Size, Shape, Color???</b>
I won’t get into the specifics since this issue is so controversial. But in my opinion, the covering should be opaque, and not in bright, fluorescent colors, so as not to call attention. It should adequately cover the hair.

<b>Loaves, You’re Just a Legalist!!!</b>
I would just like to say this, however. The conviction needs to be a heart thing. It can’t be tradition. It can’t be rules and regulations. It can’t be impulse. It must come from your heart. That genuine submission is what God is looking for.

<b>Loaves, Are You a Mennonite???</b>
No. I’m a New Testament Christian, although my beliefs line up closely to the early Anabaptists. Most of the early Anabaptists became what we know now as “Mennonites,” and “Amish.” During the early 1900s, a change took place within the Mennonites ranks that I won’t go into detail on. During the early 1900s, the Mennonites basically changed some of their beliefs. These new “beliefs” I totally disagree with.

<b>Resources</b>
Like I said, I recommend to everyone a book called “Let Her Be Veiled” by Tom Shank, available from http://www.charityministries.org. At the same website, you will also find many tapes on the issue. Also, the tract “The Veiling…” is available from a Mennonite publisher, “Rod and Staff.” They don’t have an online presence, but a guy distributes their stuff: http://rodstaff.com.

Peace be to you,