Christians and the Covid Vaccine

[darinhouston]

Homer, I'm glad your surgery worked out and that you have been protected from serious Covid harm even if it was "tough." I do pray that this immunity continues to be effective for you, whether from the naturally acquired immunity or from a subsequent vaccination and that no ill effects come from that vaccination either to your naturally acquired immunity against further infection or from other side effects.

I do understand there have been varying levels of crisis in pockets of hospitals around the country, and this could well be the case at OHSU, but I also have seen documented proof that many of these claims are misunderstood or exaggerated (and even contrived in some cases), even by attending physicians and especially by administrators who are getting major federal funding when they can show such things or classify patients as Covid patents. Even having a brief "vaccine" conversation with a patient allows physicians to claim a federal cash payment. It's really an abuse never before seen in medical practice.

So, I'll take that 90% with a grain of salt, recognizing also that there may well have been a real challenge for them.

[Otherness]

I've been following this thread with interest because my wife is an operating room nurse who refuses to be vaccinated, as do I. Our fundamental objection is that each one of these vaccines has been developed / tested using an aborted fetal cell line.

My question for Homer is this : is it not “love for the other” that is our motivation, and is it not this particular (most innocent) “other” who needs our Christian voice.

Abortion is the “crime of crimes” because it attacks God's overarching creative purpose where it is most vulnerable and innocent : the bringing forth of new life that it may be shaped, in the grace of Christ, into His image.

Until humanity, and maybe especially our nation, repents of this most egregious evil, well...finish the sentence with any dire words you want. I say “especially our nation” because we were blessed in our founding with a wisdom that was the product of both revelation and the wine press of history. The best thoughts of man and a strong Judeo-Christian ethic and understanding of (corrupt) human nature came together to forge a political structure for the ages.

It is a sad and tragic fact that “the Left” has (almost) fully (religiously) embraced the Postmodern Worldview that is in ascendancy in the Western World.

Lest I digress further, again, the abortion issue is the single reason I reject these vaccines.

And then there is Fauci and friends and their subterfuge and their Emergency Use Authority. We'll see.

Darin, thank you so much for your excellent research on this matter. I was already aware of much of what you've reported, but not in the detail you have discussed.

Brother Homer, my heart is with you in your trial with this issue. Many of the people I love have been vaccinated and I pray for their well-being.

[Homer]

Hi Otherness,

First place I looked I saw this:

Were the Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines developed using fetal
cell lines?

The mRNA COVID-19 vaccines produced by Pfizer and Moderna do not require the use of any
fetal cell cultures in order to manufacture (produce) the vaccine.
Early in the development of mRNA vaccine technology, fetal cells were used for “proof of
concept” (to demonstrate how a cell could take up mRNA and produce the SARS-CoV-2 spike
protein) or to characterize the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein.
The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were found to be ethically uncontroversial by the pro-life
policy organization the Charlotte Lozier Institute. Further, the Secretariat of Pro-Life Activities, a
committee within the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, has stated: “neither Pfizer
nor Moderna used an abortion-derived cell line in the development or production of the
vaccine. However, such a cell line was used to test the efficacy of both vaccines. Thus, while
neither vaccine is completely free from any use of abortion-derived cell lines, in these two cases
the use is very remote from the initial evil of the abortion…one may receive any of the clinically
recommended vaccines in good conscience with the assurance that reception of such vaccines
does not involve immoral cooperation in abortion.”

From: https://www.health.nd.gov/sites/www/fil ... andout.pdf

Could a Christian receive a heart transplant from a murdered person?

I can assure you I am personally opposed to abortion. My wife and I help support the nearby Obria clinic.

As I say, we are no better as a nation than Nazi Germany. They killed 6 million Jews; in the USA we have killed an estimated ten times as many of the unborn since Rowe v. Wade.

[darinhouston]

Could a Christian receive a heart transplant from a murdered person?

Bad analogy - there is an industry which partially justifies these murders by pointing to the research done as a result (and profits from that research when they sell the fetus and fetal parts).

[Otherness]

Hello Brother,

As you probably know there is a very strong pro-life ethic within the Catholic community, and though I'm not a Catholic I very much agree with their position.

Of course, Catholics are all over the map on just about every “political/social issue” so we are going to hear almost diametrically opposed views coming from within the larger body.

Here is a link to a group that represents what I recognize to be the most Christ-centered view on this matter : https://cogforlife.org/guidance/

They consider the statement :

“Thus, while neither vaccine is completely free from any use of abortion-derived cell lines, in these two cases the use is very remote from the initial evil of the abortion…one may receive any of the clinically recommended vaccines in good conscience with the assurance that reception of such vaccines does not involve immoral cooperation in abortion.”

to be but specious reasoning. I do agree with them.

[Homer]

Quote of Albert Mohler in a very interesting article from Christianity Today:

Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, suggested that people who approach vaccination as a personal choice with consequences that affect only them should think more broadly about their susceptible neighbors.

“There are third parties—people who cannot take the vaccine or do not yet have access to it that could still be infected by those who refuse to take the vaccine,” he wrote. “The general principle of the common good comes down to benevolence, love, care for others, laying down personal priorities for the service of others. Christians thinking about the issue of the vaccine must weigh this key biblical principle as part of their thinking.”

Brother Al's quote is exactly where I have been coming from.

Read the article "3 Bioethical Questions About Covid-19 Vaccines" here:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/20 ... cells.html

[Paidion]

Quote from Albert Mohler:
“There are third parties—people who cannot take the vaccine or do not yet have access to it that could still be infected by those who refuse to take the vaccine,” he wrote.

They could also still be infected by those who do take the vaccine!

[darinhouston]

First, "Brother Al" has been wrong before and he's wrong now. He's not wrong that Christians should consider these things, but he is wrong to assume it's effective enough and safe enough to have the values he ascribes to it (or the disease generally harmful enough) to warrant a general prescription as a Christian virtue.

Did you notice that "Brother Al" has sued the government over the vaccine mandate.

[darinhouston]

To be clear, however, I am not suggesting it is an unqualified sin for someone to take the vaccine. That is one of the things the article was addressing, but I don't know anyone who takes that position. The issue you've raised to which I am primarily responding is whether it is wrong for a Christian to have, as a matter of conscience or medical wisdom, refused to take the vaccine and whether the abortion issue is a legitimate point of religious belief.

[Homer]

....and whether the abortion issue is a legitimate point of religious belief.

Darin, I can assure you I am as adamantly opposed to abortion as anyone posting here. As mentioned in the past I consider the USA collectively to be as bad as Nazi Germany. We have killed millions of innocent babies, that's about as bad as it gets.