I have something of a dilemma....

Post by **_Rick_C** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:34 am

I wasn't sure where to start this thread (maybe under: Church Life?) but am doing it here.

I have a problem and have been praying about it, especially in the last month or so.

I believe all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are "for today" (they didn't stop) and have been going to churches that have individual charismatics in them. These folks pray in the Spirit (in tongues) in private. They "say" they also believe in all of the gifts but the gifts don't happen in these churches. They get into the worship during songs, and when the song is over, it's time to put your hands down, be quiet, and take a seat! There have been prayers for the sick and healings have occurred but not during a service that I know of. Don't misunderstand: I'm not (at all) "chasing after the gifts" but simply want to worship in a community that allows the Spirit of God to move and operate as He wills.

I could go to a Pentecostal church but the problem is: they're all dispensationalist. So my dilemma is: Should I go to and support a church that teaches false doctrine but yet, believes in the gifts of the Holy Spirit? (Btw, I'm very strongly opposed to dispensationalism...basically, can't stand it...but can get along with folks who believe in it as in, agree to disagree).

I know a semi-retired pastor and his wife who were temporarily pastoring a non-pentecostal church and am going to call them later today to see if they still are. They're former Nazarenes who were kicked out of the denomination back in the early 70s for becoming charismatic. For a few years they were in a very small denomination formed by Nazarene charismatics (which I think went under for whatever reason). Since then they've been licensed with the Assemblies of God...which I left (one of their Bible colleges and the denomination) after becoming amillennial while a student. At that time I realized I couldn't be in the A/G and left voluntarily after several sessions with one of their top theologians. Unfortunately, I didn't ask him for any guidance about where I could possibly go...and wound up getting very bitter and backslid.

Strangely enough, I learned a while back this pastor and his wife have also become amillennial (they told me) and yet remain in the A/G. They would have to agree to never go against A/G dispensationalist doctrine, and I'm assuming they have made the agreement. I'm going to ask them about this.

I'm looking not only for a church to go to, and though I backslid for several years (and it's time I totally-get-over-that!); I still sense a call of God on my life to teach and/or preach....

Any thoughts?
This pastor & wife are hard to get a hold of...they're always out & about.
I'll report back if if I get in touch & discuss with them. Thanks.

Post by **_Rick_C** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:38 pm

Okay. I got through to the pastor today, he was home, on the phone.

I found out he's pastoring a Wesleyan Church and that this particular church is charismatic. That is, they allow the gifts of the Spirit to "happen." I'm almost positive the church was not charismatic before he and his wife came. They've been pastoring there almost two years, "filling in" till they find a replacement for the last pastor (I say "They've" as both of them consider themselves pastors. She may have a license also, I forgot to ask).

I also learned he's no longer licensed with the A/G, but with the Open Bible denomination (which I think is Pentecostal, but forgot to ask)....

At any rate, this church is in another town a bit too far for me to drive to. However, Pastor Ron (is his first name) just started a Bible study in a home in my town and I plan to go next Saturday.

He suggested I visit some Pentecostal churches here. Then I reminded him, "Remember, how you and I are amillennialists? And how all the Pentecostals are dispensational? I have a hard time with that." To which he replied, ""I know what you mean but, Rick, everyone in this area in evangelical churches are dispensational." He went on to say that this probably won't change any time soon and I might as well find a fellowship of folks who believe in the gifts and get around them, regardless of what their eschatology is (I'd say about 95% of evangelicals in my town are dispensational).

So, I'm going to the Bible study next week to see where God leads from there. I know for a fact there are others here who want to be in fellowship with people who believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I'm inviting two of them to this Bible study, which fortunately, is at a time to where they can still go to their church.

I think my problem is effectively solved. If I believe the gifts of the Spirit are for today, I can trust God to lead me today. I have a really good feeling about getting back with Pastor Ron and his wife, Jeannie-Marie (both Canadians who came to Ohio as Nazarenes but have since been church planters, and now are temporarily pastoring for two years)!

Thanks for the space to type this, Steve Gregg (if you see this). God bless you all.

Post by **_mattrose** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:43 pm

A Wesleyan church, eh? Cool!

Post by **_Rick_C** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:43 pm

Hi Matt,

Yes, that's pretty cool, huh?

I'd visited another Wesleyan Church in my town where this pastor & wife team had been going before they began to pastor in this other church (mainly just to see them). While they were there, I understand the pastor was "open" to the gifts of the Spirit and that Jeannie-Marie had prophesied in some of the services. Her prophesies were accepted by the whole church (as far as I know)....

Since then I've tried to find the Wesleyan Church's beliefs on the gifts (on google) and have looked for charismatic Wesleyans. I know they're out there (you're one of them, and I've seen some charismatic Wesleyan blogs).

It seems I went to the Wesleyan Church's homepage and couldn't find anything about charismatics and/or the gifts of the Spirit. Do you know what their (official) position is, if in fact they have one? Thanks.

Post by **_mattrose** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:40 pm

Well, actually, I wouldn't even consider myself 'charismatic' by most senses of the word. I believe the gifts are all still in effect, but I disagree with most of the ways the gifts are practiced in charismatic and/or pentecostal churches.

In my area, Wesleyan churches aren't very charismatic. I don't think any of the 32 churches in the Western NY district have 'tongues' in church services or 'prophesying' from the congregation during the services. It's impossible for me to know how similar my district is from others. But I will say that i went to Bethany Bible College (the only wesleyan 'bible' college) and nobody spoke in tongues during services there either.

So it's hard to say...churches often take on the style of their leaders. So if you had a very charismatic leadership in a wesleyan church, it wouldn't be disallowed...but it would probably be out of the norm.