Suffering and the Sovereignty of God

[Guest]

A friend gave me the book, Suffering and the Sovereignty of God
by John Piper and Justin taylor. Any comments on this book?

thanks,

[Guest]

A friend gave me the book, Suffering and the Sovereignty of God
by John Piper and Justin taylor. Any comments on this book?

thanks,

I have not read this book, but I would recommend the book written by CS Lewis called The Problem of Pain. This is a great read on the subject!

Robin

[Guest]

If you are interested in an alternative to the issues of suffering and the problem of evil besides Piper and Lewis, Greg Boyd has a work on the subject called "God at War". He says that "Modern Christians attempt to intellectually understand evil, whereas New Testament writers grappled with overcoming evil." In my opinion, the former leads to passivity whereas the latter leads to the advancment of the kingdom which the bible says is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. Thus, Boyd's (the biblical) understanding of dealing with suffering and pain leads to the conversion of the will to Christ, healing and restoration of the emotions in consequence of the spreading of the Kingdom's triumph over the works of darkness.

[Guest]

If you are interested in an alternative to the issues of suffering and the problem of evil besides Piper and Lewis, Greg Boyd has a work on the subject called "God at War". He says that "Modern Christians attempt to intellectually understand evil, whereas New Testament writers grappled with overcoming evil." In my opinion, the former leads to passivity whereas the latter leads to the advancment of the kingdom which the bible says is righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. Thus, Boyd's (the biblical) understanding of dealing with suffering and pain leads to the conversion of the will to Christ, healing and restoration of the emotions in consequence of the spreading of the Kingdom's triumph over the works of darkness.

Interesting thought. However, I would make a greater distinction between evil, and suffering or pain. Understanding suffering and pain, in my opinion, is much different than understanding evil. What I'm trying to say is that pain and suffering are not always a result of evil.

Robin

[Guest]

Robin wrote:

What I'm trying to say is that pain and suffering are not always a result of evil.

I may agree with this, but i am not sure. when God created man in the garden of Eden, He said that it was "good." there was no pain or suffering there, nor is there pain and suffering in heaven. therefore, it seems that an argument can be made that sin (evil) brought pain and suffering into the world.

Now, if I slam my thumb with a hammer, and cause pain, is that the result of evil? I'm not too sure. I guess it kind of depends on whether Adam experienced pain (or could have) prior to the fall.

TK

[Guest]

Now, if I slam my thumb with a hammer, and cause pain, is that the result of evil? I'm not too sure. I guess it kind of depends on whether Adam experienced pain (or could have) prior to the fall.

It also depends on how you define "pain". If Adam got dust in his eye, I think he'd have felt some discomfort...part of the design of his body. Are we going to argue that there could never have been any danger of injury of any kind in the garden? Did he have Superman's steel skin? Would he feel it if Eve pinched him in the...whatever? Would he feel it if his bladder was too full? (or do we think the food was so perfect there was no waste?) The line between sensation and pain is fine, and as the Bible is basically silent on what exactly the "unspoiled" state looked like, I tend toward "Adam wouldn't like to be poked in the eye."

[Guest]

And also the Lord didn't say that He would GIVE women pain in childbirth, but that He would INCREASE their (our) pain. Sounds to me like there was pain before the curse.

[Guest]

That is true, Rachel. And yet, even today some women have no pain, or virtually no pain, in child birth.

There was a farmer's wife in my area who was pitching hay on the very day her baby was born. She came in from the hay field, had the baby, and went back to the hayfield the next day.

[Guest]

Well, yeah, women are strong; that doesn't mean the childbirth was painless, though.

[Guest]

I am speaking of chronic pain. And, wonder if this book is
based on Calvanism?