Steve,
In a previous correspondence, you spoke of a sin leading to death, where "death" was to be considered a physical death. This brought to mind something Jesus warned about .... blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Matthew, Mark and Luke use slightly different wording but the message is the same .... blasphemy, or speaking against the Holy Spirit, is a sin that will not be forgiven. To my mind that is spiritual death, and might not John be thinking of the same thing when he spoke of a sin leading to death?
However, to pursue this line of thought we need to understand how to recognize this blasphemous utterance in order not to pray for the person who committed such a sin. I can come up with situations where I might think someone has done just that, but I cannot be certain. It seems to be a rather subjective kind of condition depending on who does the judging; nevertheless, since Jesus gave such a clear warning there must be some way to identify this condition.
I was wondering if you could provide an example of how someone would qualify as having committed such a sin?
speaking against the Holy Spirit
speaking against the Holy Spirit
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Joe Marcheski
Joe,
In the discussion in which I mentioned the "sin leading to death," I acknowledged that many (perhaps most) commentators understand John's words as referring to a sin leading to "spiritual" death (i.e., an unpardonable sin).
I also said that, in my view, physical death would be a more natural reading of the text, and mentioned that the other view has the very problems attached that you here bring up—viz., that he does not tell us what that sin is, and we therefore have no way of knowing whetP has or has not committed it. Thus we would not have the ability to heed John's instructions, whereas, if he means "if your brother has sinned unto death (meaning until he died)," then it would be easy to know whether this has happened or not, and would make very good sense of the instructions.
As for the actual sin spoken of by Christ (which I do not connect with the passage in 1 John), this is referred to as "the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" or speaking "a word against the Holy Spirit" and is contrasted with speaking "a word against the Son of Man," in that the latter can be forgiven and the former can not (Matthew 12:31-32).
Two possible meanings of these statements suggest themselves to my mind:
The first is that Jesus is speaking about a condition of heart that has become obstinate or reprobate, and is thus beyond the point of being able to feel conviction and is thus unable to repent. The inability to repent would guarantee that the person will never experience forgiveness. In favor of this view, although Jesus identifies the sin as a spoken word, the immediate context emphasizes that we will all be judged by our words for the simple reason that our unguarded speech reveals the contents of our hearts as surely as the fruit of a tree reveals the nature of the tree (vv.33-37). A person without a reprobate heart might initially make the ignorant mistake of speaking against Christ, as did Paul before his conversion, and might thereafter be converted (1 Timothy 1:13). Thus he who spoke a word against the Son of Man might thereafter be forgiven. But when the Holy Spirit has convicted a man of the truth of the gospel, and that man has continued to resist and to speak against what he knows or suspects to be the truth, his heart becomes hardened and will ultimately come to a point of being reprobate and incapable of repentance (Romans 1:18-19, 21, 28). That man will never be forgiven. The Pharisees, who had, a moment earlier, claimed that the work of the Holy Spirit was in fact the work of the devil, may have themselves crossed that line, or been in danger of doing so. Hence the warning about this from Christ.
An alternative explanation would be that speaking "a word against the Son of Man" refers to the rejection of Christ during His earthly ministry, whereas speaking "a word against the Holy Spirit" would refer to continuing the same opposition after Jesus had ascended and the Holy Spirit was now testifying about Christ through the church. In essence, Christ would then be saying, "You are rejecting me, the Son of Man, now while I am with you. However, this is not your last opportunity to be saved. When I am gone, the Holy Spirit will come and confirm to you who I was among you. If you also reject His testimony, there will be no other opportunities beyond that." In other words, if you continue your rejection of the Holy Spirit's testimony, as you rejected that of Christ when He was here, you have exhausted all of your opportunities, and will not be forgiven "in this age or in the age to come" (i.e., in the Old Dispensation—in which the Son of Man walked the earth—or in the Next Dispensation—in which the Spirit will have taken up the testimony).
In any case, Jesus does not instruct us about praying or not praying for people in this condition, so it is not essential that we know who has and who has not committed this sin. It is enough that we have not done so.
In the discussion in which I mentioned the "sin leading to death," I acknowledged that many (perhaps most) commentators understand John's words as referring to a sin leading to "spiritual" death (i.e., an unpardonable sin).
I also said that, in my view, physical death would be a more natural reading of the text, and mentioned that the other view has the very problems attached that you here bring up—viz., that he does not tell us what that sin is, and we therefore have no way of knowing whetP has or has not committed it. Thus we would not have the ability to heed John's instructions, whereas, if he means "if your brother has sinned unto death (meaning until he died)," then it would be easy to know whether this has happened or not, and would make very good sense of the instructions.
As for the actual sin spoken of by Christ (which I do not connect with the passage in 1 John), this is referred to as "the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" or speaking "a word against the Holy Spirit" and is contrasted with speaking "a word against the Son of Man," in that the latter can be forgiven and the former can not (Matthew 12:31-32).
Two possible meanings of these statements suggest themselves to my mind:
The first is that Jesus is speaking about a condition of heart that has become obstinate or reprobate, and is thus beyond the point of being able to feel conviction and is thus unable to repent. The inability to repent would guarantee that the person will never experience forgiveness. In favor of this view, although Jesus identifies the sin as a spoken word, the immediate context emphasizes that we will all be judged by our words for the simple reason that our unguarded speech reveals the contents of our hearts as surely as the fruit of a tree reveals the nature of the tree (vv.33-37). A person without a reprobate heart might initially make the ignorant mistake of speaking against Christ, as did Paul before his conversion, and might thereafter be converted (1 Timothy 1:13). Thus he who spoke a word against the Son of Man might thereafter be forgiven. But when the Holy Spirit has convicted a man of the truth of the gospel, and that man has continued to resist and to speak against what he knows or suspects to be the truth, his heart becomes hardened and will ultimately come to a point of being reprobate and incapable of repentance (Romans 1:18-19, 21, 28). That man will never be forgiven. The Pharisees, who had, a moment earlier, claimed that the work of the Holy Spirit was in fact the work of the devil, may have themselves crossed that line, or been in danger of doing so. Hence the warning about this from Christ.
An alternative explanation would be that speaking "a word against the Son of Man" refers to the rejection of Christ during His earthly ministry, whereas speaking "a word against the Holy Spirit" would refer to continuing the same opposition after Jesus had ascended and the Holy Spirit was now testifying about Christ through the church. In essence, Christ would then be saying, "You are rejecting me, the Son of Man, now while I am with you. However, this is not your last opportunity to be saved. When I am gone, the Holy Spirit will come and confirm to you who I was among you. If you also reject His testimony, there will be no other opportunities beyond that." In other words, if you continue your rejection of the Holy Spirit's testimony, as you rejected that of Christ when He was here, you have exhausted all of your opportunities, and will not be forgiven "in this age or in the age to come" (i.e., in the Old Dispensation—in which the Son of Man walked the earth—or in the Next Dispensation—in which the Spirit will have taken up the testimony).
In any case, Jesus does not instruct us about praying or not praying for people in this condition, so it is not essential that we know who has and who has not committed this sin. It is enough that we have not done so.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
In Jesus,
Steve
Steve