Question about giving

Post by **_Perry** » Fri May 25, 2007 4:08 pm

Not too long ago in my fellowship, our minister described what he called a “need” in the family of a sister congregation. In this case, it was a labor saving device for someone who had a particular physical handicap. As far as I know the individual in question did not approach the fellowship asking for help, but, rather our minister took it upon himself to make the situation known. The total cost was going to be in the neighborhood of $1500.00.

I was fully prepared to donate to this cause…

…until…

I learned that the individual in question has cable television, and pays a monthly cable bill. I decided not to contribute.

How did I learn this? I asked.

It’s not that I have a problem with someone having cable TV. I have satellite TV myself. But I do consider it to be a luxury, and I don’t feel a obligated to subsidize luxuries in the name of Christianity.

I present this case to you guys for your criticism. I’m fairly well convinced that I made the correct choice, and I’m not looking for affirmation of that. My conviction is not absolute, however.

I’m interested in other perspectives.

Perry

Post by **_Paidion** » Fri May 25, 2007 7:16 pm

What if you had a special need, Perry? Let's say you had an auto accident and required special equipment in order to walk, but could not afford the equipment. Would you refuse help on the grounds that you have satellite TV? Do you feel, in such a case, that you ought to get rid of your TV, and all other "unnecessary luxuries" before accepting help to purchase the equipment you need.

Post by **_Steve** » Fri May 25, 2007 7:23 pm

My children were raised in a home without television, but I don't begrudge a bit of entertainment to anyone, in moderation. I don't know the nature of the disability your church was seeking to alleviate, but it would be my concern to provide whatever genuine assistance I could to ease the burdens of a disabled person. A television might even be such a blessing, if the person's disability prevents him/her from being able to get out much.

I would prefer to see a shut-in turn his/her disability into an opportunity for spiritual enrichment and prayer, but as I myself don't use every spare moment for prayer and spiritual enrichment, I can hardly impose such an obligation on others.

I do not say that you must contribute to this particular $1500 need, but if I was inclined at one point to help out, I would not change my mind upon hearing that they have cable TV (especially if I allowed myself the same diversion in my home). If they were spending their money on sinful activities, that would be another matter. Some people consider TV to be inappropriate for Christians to watch, but since you have satellite TV, you are obviously not one of them.

Just my thoughts.

Post by **_Perry** » Sat May 26, 2007 1:03 am

Paidion wrote:Do you feel, in such a case, that you ought to get rid of your TV, and all other "unnecessary luxuries" before accepting help to purchase the equipment you need.

Yes, I'd like to think so... but please imagine me looking thoughtful and answering slowly.

I've never received aid from the church, but there have been times when it sure would have made things easier. At those times I didn't have cable, or even a telephone. When times get tough, it becomes fairly easy to figure out what's a luxury and what's not. I hope those times never return.

But if they do, I think I should make a few sacrifices of my own before burdening the church with my need.

Perry

Post by **_Sean** » Sat May 26, 2007 2:40 am

Given the circumstances you mentioned, I don't think I would have a problem with giving if the money was going to something specific and not just handed over to spend in any way. If they are going to be handed the money, they should first have it explained to them what the money is for. I would feel much more comfortable taking a "bill" off someones hand and paying it myself (or through the church) so that it doesn't get diverted to non-essentials. Personally, if I were handicapped, I would love to have some relief from being alone (if I lived by myself) like the internet or TV.
But again, I can understand your reservations about giving.

Post by **_PAULESPINO** » Sat May 26, 2007 5:27 am

judgement belongs to God and not to me

In my own opinion cable TV is not a luxury because there are many programs such as Christian programs that a person can watch .
These Christian programs are being used by God to:
a) teach and edify us.
b)These Christian programs offer different views and interpretations of the bible and we can learn while watching.
c)TV has positive effect to a disable person because it can entertain and relieve stress.

We don't know what programs on TV the person in your church are watching unless you interogate him.

Everytime a person on the streets asked me for a money I always give them even if they look healthier and stronger than me because I don't have time to investigate whether they are going to use the money to pay for foods or vices but what I do is I always talk to God and tell him that judgement belongs to God and not to me.

Post by **_anothersteve** » Sat May 26, 2007 8:55 am

Perry wrote

But if they do, I think I should make a few sacrifices of my own before burdening the church with my need.

Hi Perry, based on the info you provided I don't think this person asked for the support.....right? Is this not just simply a gift from some of his/her brothers and sisters. I've given gifts to people many times, on a personal basis, who could have afforded it themselves. I guess the precedent the pastor is setting could be dangerous since people could think..."Hey, what about me!!" BUT....is it possible that God sees fit to bless and encourage your bother/sister in this fashion?

Deciding what is and isn't a luxury is very elusive. I think this is something each person must determine for themselves before God. I agree with Paulespino, we can't really judge. For instance, if I bought an upscale car it would be a wrong decision for me. If I got a job as a real estate agent then it would be a good decision to get one IMO. For yourself, getting rid of your cable TV at that time may have been an important step in your Christian walk. For another person it may be the least of God's concern. We're not all "wired" the same way.

Post by **_Paidion** » Sat May 26, 2007 1:44 pm

Everytime a person on the streets asked me for a money I always give them even if they look healthier and stronger than me because I don't have time to investigate whether they are going to use the money to pay for foods or vices but what I do is I always talk to God and tell him that judgement belongs to God and not to me.

God has given us brains; he has given us the abilitly to assess. I think He holds us responsible concerning giving.

The Didachā (probably written in the early second century, but possibly in the late first)) states:

Let your money sweat in your hands until you know to whom you should give.

The same writing also encourages the readers to receive prophets into their homes. But if a prophet asks for money, don't listen to him; he is a false prophet.

God expects us to make judgments concerning our giving. I believe He will hold us accountable.

My policy concerning being asked for money on the street of a city is to ask the person if he is hungry. If he says, "yes", I invite him to accompany me to a restaurant where I will buy him a meal. More often than not, such a person will refuse. Many of them want the money for drink ---- not food.

Once during a week visit in Grenada (East Carribean), I met a man in the street of the capital, Georgetown. I talked with him for some time; at no time did he ask for money. Had only one leg. I asked him whether he received any help from the government. He replied, "Yes, but it's not enough to live on. That's why I am a beggar." It was only at that point that I realized that he was in fact a beggar. Even then he didn't ask for money. However, I offered some, and he thankfully accepted.

Post by **_PAULESPINO** » Sat May 26, 2007 7:58 pm

Once during a week visit in Grenada (East Carribean), I met a man in the street of the capital, Georgetown. I talked with him for some time; at no time did he ask for money. Had only one leg. I asked him whether he received any help from the government. He replied, "Yes, but it's not enough to live on. That's why I am a beggar." It was only at that point that I realized that he was in fact a beggar. Even then he didn't ask for money. However, I offered some, and he thankfully accepted.

I have done the same thing. I met a beggar who seems to be mentally ill due to hunger at Burger King I bought him a cheeseburger combo and he was delighted. What surprises me was that this man knows the bible and can qoute verses from the bible.

God has given us brains; he has given us the abilitly to assess. I think He holds us responsible concerning giving

Good point Paidion. I follow my conviction but if truly know that the person is going to cheat me then I don't give.

Post by **_Homer** » Sun May 27, 2007 3:15 pm

Do we love our neighbor as ourself? Too much of the time, probably not. How far should a person be impoverished before we help them if they have some of the things we enjoy? It seems to be fairly common to justify refusal of help to people on the fact they have TV, buy potato chips or soda pop, etc., ad infinitim. Before they are helped, must they give up all the small pleasures of life that most of us enjoy if we love them as ourselves? If your child or grandchild needed help would you say they must first give up all non-necessities first?