Level of sin for believers

[Guest]

Hi, first time poster here!

OK, my brother and I(both believers) have been in a debate lately. We are debating the evidences of salvation.
I contend that while we are saved, there will still be time when we stumble and sin and even struggle with deeper on-going issues but remain in Christ and are still saved although still a sinner.
I DO, however say that there are some sins, or level of sin, that indicates someone may indeed NOT be a believer even though they profess faith in Christ.

Case-in-point: There is a men's group from a church and one day they are confessing their sins...one says he looked at porn, another says he lied on a job application, another says he looked lustfully at the woman at McDonald's....then one guy says "well, I slipped-up and raped and murdered a 4 year old girl"
Is that last man showing a lack of regeneration as opposed to dealing with stumbling more than the others? We all do sin from time to time but we DO NOT do sin to that level as beleivers. Right? Wrong?


My brother says there is no difference in levels of sin to God and that those other sins are just as offensive to God and we shouldn't judge where the line is for a sin to show lack of regeneration/salvation.

I say that the IS a difference but he challenged me to show where in the Bible this is shown to be true.

Please help me here....some scripture to show the difference or show how he is right(ugh!).

Thanks!

[Guest]

Hey Sean,

I always grew up with the whole sin is sin thing being taught to me.

Anyways I would look to Matthew 11:24, Mark 6:11, and Luke 10:12 and ask, "Why would judgment be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment if all sin is equal?".

[Guest]

I think we need to be careful about setting up man-made caste systems of sinners. The “big” sin the Pharisees had was pride. I think persistent disobedience is the bigger issue. We should always be encouraging each other to walk uprightly in Christ.

I won’t address your “case in point” because it’s hypothetical. Even if it was a true story only God knows the heart and life of each individual.

Case in point:
God asks a person “A” to do something and he doesn’t follow through.
Person “B” rapes and murders someone.
Who should God punish more?
Person “A” (Saul)ended up having the kingdom stripped from him and God’s Spirit left him.
Person “B” (David) was punished but ended up with an ongoing kingdom.

God’s thoughts are not my thoughts.

BTW...welcome to the forum!!

[Guest]

yes-- what steve said!

TK

[Guest]

Thanks for the replies all! Yeah, I understand sin is sin but there is ample evidence of God requiring greater punishment at least temporaly for certain sins over others. I know ALL sin convicts us but it seems that a follower of Christ indwelt by the Holy Spirit would not be prone to deep levels of depravity.
I don't know where the line would be, in fact there isn't one but like Justice Stewart said "I know it when I see it" regarding pornography. I see a similar analogy to those levels of sin.
On the OTHER hand......I guess couldn't say "That person is clearly not a Christian because they did (insert major sin here)"

[Guest]

Good post!

I heard someone say that sin is sin in that all sin will get you a whipping but some sin will get you more strikes than others. Anyways I do believe that thescripture teaches degrees of punishment and degrees of reward for the things in the body while here on earth.

For instance I would rather have someone look and lust after my wife than rape her, both would be a sin but they are on completely differeent levels.

Thats all for now, have to get, grace and peace

[Guest]

John 19:11 Jesus answered, You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body.

Luke 12:47-48 And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

1 John 5:16-17 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death

I know, that is all New Testament. If we understand it correctly, the New Testament cannot be in conflict with the Tanach (Old Testament) so I need to do a little more digging to see where these concepts come from.

Blessings,
Chayim

[Guest]

if God is perfectly just (which i hold that He is) then obviously there must be degrees of punishment for greater vs lesser sins. of course, it is He and not we who must judge which sins are greater, and it is certainly His prerogative to show mercy, as He deems fit.

TK

[Guest]

I wonder…

What if instead of thinking in the juridical terms of Sin and Punishment, we thought in the relational terms of Sin and Restoration? Instead of greater sin requiring greater punishment, maybe (assuming God’s intention is restoration) greater sin requires greater restoration. I think of burn victims: The healing process for a 3rd degree burn is much more lengthy and painful than for a 1st degree burn. The goal of both, however, is restoration.

[Guest]

Mort said

What if instead of thinking in the juridical terms of Sin and Punishment, we thought in the relational terms of Sin and Restoration?

Well said...I like where you're going with this. It sounds like the mind of Christ to me.