Guilty or Not Guilty by Association

[Guest]

I've noticed quite a few topics lately where people seem to be implying that we could be guilty by associating ourselves with organizations that particpate in sinful practices.

So, my question is 'Are we guilty of sin by association'? There are several instances in the Bible where one associates themselves with entities that practice evil, but they are not condemned by Jesus for being apart of the organization. Jesus only condemns the act committed by the individual themselves. Examples being tax collectors or pharisees.

Are there examples in the Bible where one was condemned by association?

[Guest]

Depends on what the nature of the involvement is. You cannot help associating with sinners without leaving the world, which is not required (1 Cor.5:10). However, being yoked together in voluntary partnership with sinners is to be avoided (2 Cor.6:14). What kind of situations are you thinking of?

[Guest]

Hi Steve,

I guess I was meaning more like job wise or putting your money into things. Like Nicodemus for example, he was a Pharisee which Jesus constantly condemned their acts, but it seems Nicodemus never quit being a member of the council (or at least it never states it) when he seemed to align himself with Christ. Should he have renounced his membership as a Pharisee or not?

The same with Zaccheus. It doesn't say he stopped being a tax collector and Jesus never condemned him for associating himself with a government that practices evil. So, is it okay to be associated in earthly things like that as long as you don't commit any sinful act?

Also, with money. The widower gave her two copper coins to the church. At that time I am sure the Pharisees used that money for evil. So, was it wrong for her to give her money knowing in the end it wouldn't be used for the good of God?

The reason I bring this up is because people are saying that by putting your money in stock, insurance, etc. or by involving yourself with certain organizations that you are indirectly helping sinful causes. Is that really the case if your intentions were good to begin with?

Thanks for your response.

[Guest]

I don't know the moral ramifications of paying insurance premiums or investing in the stocks of some companies which may take the profits and support causes with which we are not in sympathy. I suppose that would depend on a number of factors and the individual conscience of the investor.

The Pharisees were not actually an organization, but more like followers of a set of beliefs. There was nothing intrinsically evil about their their beliefs, and Jesus said it was actually good to follow their teaching (Matt.23:2-3). His complaint about them was that most of them did not follow their own teachings, or else manipulated their rules to allow themselves to compromise on actual obligations. This was a defect in individuals, not in the belief system.

The Sanhedrin was the ruling body of Israel. There was nothing evil about its existence or its purposes. It existed to uphold the law of Moses in society, and was presided over by the priesthood that God had ordained. It is likely that both the Pharisees and the Sanhedrin did many good things—and the best of things, when acting according to their official purpose for existing. The evils they did were incidental deviations from that good due to the evil or weakness of individuals. The association was not evil in and of itself.

Similarly with the Roman tax system. Like all governments, the Romans probably put much of their tax revenues to immoral uses. I don't know the degree to which this was so, or all that was involved with being a government contractor, like a publican. Zacchaeus' resolve to behave honestly and justly in his profession was a first step demonstrating his repentance. Whether he later took additional steps to distance himself from the disreputable profession we have no way of knowing.

Since all of our money is God's money, if we feel that He wants us to invest some of it in the market or to use some to secure insurance, then we will no doubt be concerned to pick and choose the companies that we do business with, in order to avoid putting God's money into ventures that exist largely for the purpose of promoting evil (e.g., the support of Planned Parenthood or N.O.W.). These organizations are not comparable, in principle, with the Pharisees, the Sanhedrin, or even the Roman government, in my opinion.

[Guest]

the practicality of tracing exactly how insurance premiums are used by insurance companies is probably nil. insurance companies make profits through investments (just like banks). a lot (maybe most) insurance companies do not make an underwriting profit( i.e they spend more in claims and expenses than they receive in premium). profit is made through investing the premium dollars (or in a bank's case the deposits of its customers).

those premium dollars and investments are spread over a very large and likely complex portfolio. i dont see how it would even be remotely possible for the average person to make sure that some of that money isnt going somewhere questionable-- perhaps toward stock in a liquor or cigarette company, for example.

i am not sure if ignorance is an excuse, however. but as a practical matter when it comes to insurance and banking,one may have to plead ignorance. this seems different from investing directly into questionable enterprises.

TK

[Guest]

And then of course there is this issue of legalism...

[Guest]

Let's not forget the many religious organizations, many of whom call themselves "churches" who plead and beg for money from people, only to use it to make their leaders rich. Some of these leaders are very persuasive, and their dupes believe the money is being used to promote the purposes of God.

[Guest]

Paidion,

I heard Benny Hinn ask for everyone who could to mail him 1,000.00
to help pay for his airplane...The plane is in the millions..(can't remember)
What do you make of this?

[Guest]

Thanks for the response Steve. I appreciate it.

So, if I could implore for your time a little more I would like to ask a more practical question concerning my topic.

Currently I work for a hospital. My hospital presently doesn't do anything unethical, at least to my knowledge. However, let's say my hospital decides to change their insurance benefits to cover domestic partners. Now I am working for a company that is supporting something unethical. So, would God hold me accountable for supporting the sin because I work for the hospital? If yes, than what should I do to change it so I can remain innocent before God?

[Guest]

hi micah-

i dont see how God can hold you(or me, or anyone) responsible for someone else's sin or impropriety. unless you are on the board of directors of the hospital, you cannot influence their decisions. must we quit our employment every time our employer does something we dont agree with ethically? i am afraid the unemployment rate would skyrocket if this was the case.

do you think that every oxen yoke or chair that jesus made were only sold to people who were the faithful jewish remnant? or is it possible he sold items to sinful people as well? did he only purchase timber from tradesman who had the exact theological views that he did?

i am beginning to agree with Allyn's comment about legalism. the world is simply too complex and interconnected to make sure that every seemingly innocent action on our part does not somehow benefit those with evil motives. how could we?

TK