Question about unmarried mothers

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Sean
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by Sean » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:52 pm

I can't say I have any great advice except to say that I also agree that it is most likely a spiritual attack. My wife very commonly has dreams that I am with another woman. She also has dreams where she feels like she has a demon in her, or looks in a mirror and sees a demon. My wife and I have a very strong marriage and I believe this is one way that the powers of darkness try and destroy a good thing. So at the very least I can attest that I know what it is like for the wicked one to use dreams to try and damage a marriage.

My best advice it to pray, think rightly about the issue (as you probably already are) and finally to hang on. It may take some time before these go away. Don't begin to think that the dreams themselves are something you are doing wrong. They are something happening to you. One of the ways I have been attacked is through frustration leading to anger. Although I am a very logical thinker I have found myself in situations where I was enraged at my wife for irrational reasons. After several days of wondering what in the world was going on the anger simply left. There was an actual point where I could feel it leave and I was instantly happy. It was not until then did I realize I was under attack. I was being pushed, very hard, to sin. When I endured the trial long enough it eventually ended.

So all I can say is to keep enduring it. Realize it's not something you should feel guilt about. Remind yourself that the door is closed to her. In my wife's case, she still has dreams occasionally. So I can't say they will go away.

I'll pray for you Matt
He will not fail nor be discouraged till He has established justice in the earth. (Isaiah 42:4)

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mattrose
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by mattrose » Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:44 pm

Thanks Sean. I really appreciate it.

This may be somewhat of an annual issue. Every year we all (my wife, this other girl, myself & about 50 other people from our church) go to a district camp for a week. We always have a ton of fun. It was after this camp (being around each other for the week) that these dreams became so frequent. And, since camp, this other girl lost everything in a fire and so I have been helping her and her kids out quite a bit. So my interaction has been more than normal recently. I am hoping and assuming that the dreams & thoughts will become so less frequent that they aren't as annoying/frustrating over the next couple of months.

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Homer
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by Homer » Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:15 pm

Hi Matt,

God bless you brother! I will pray for you.

You wrote:
Eventually, I began to spend significant amounts of time with another friend from church and we courted and got married (as some of you know) on December 31st, 2009.
How did you manage that? I have argued that God is outside of time but didn't think about you! :D

So much for fun, I hope I can encourage you. First of all, things we dream about are out of our control, so there is no need for guilt. I worked from the time I was 19 until I retired, when I turned 57, in places of employment, one almost 12 years and the other over 25 years. I started out as a laborer, went to college a little over two years worth of credit at night and progressively moved into positions of more responsibility. The last several years I had a position of much responsibility and the stress that goes with it. And since my retirement, I dream of work far more than any other subject; some of the dreams are a combination of my two very different places of employment. The reason I relate this is, that although I got much satisfaction from my work, if I could go back in time and was young again, the thought of working as I did is appalling to me. I have absolutely no desire in my waking hours to go back, and have not had one day when I regretted retiring. And almost never think about the jobs I had while I am awake. If I could go back in time, I think I would chose to work with my hands, which I enjoy. So, feeling as I do, why do I dream so often about my old jobs? I haven't a clue. I am fortunate, as those dreams are no cause of guilt - I just wake up and am glad I'm not working there anymore. And you can wake up and thank God for your wife!

And you wrote:
Worse yet, I have horrible thoughts sometimes during the day-time. I catch myself thinking of horrible hypothetical situations like if both our spouses died, we could end up together after all. I feel gross just typing that
I can say I have thoughts that I should not think also and it helps to just stop and pray for God to take it away and if the thought tries to pop up again, then pray some more.

God bless you, brother, Homer

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mattrose
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by mattrose » Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:37 pm

Haha, 2008 I guess! Sorry

Thanks! All of the comments in this thread have been very helpful. I simply need to continue devoting myself to my spouse and praying over these issues :)

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mattrose
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by mattrose » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:46 pm

I haven't had such a dream or thought all week!

Maybe just acknowledging the issue before brothers & sisters in Christ was a good start in letting satan know I'm not going to let him beat me in this area

Thanks for all your prayers!

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Michelle
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by Michelle » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:41 pm

I'm glad that the dreams have stopped, at least for this past week. You and Katie will continue to be on my prayer list.

Last night I dreamed Bill Clinton bawled me out for wearing flip-flops to work. What was up with THAT dream?

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Suzana
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by Suzana » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:58 am

Matt,
that's really great, & praise God!

Michelle...I've had some really bizarre dreams at times, and sincerely hope they don't mean anything in particular!
I've just checked out wiki on 'dreams', there's some fascinating theories out there, as well as interesting facts.
Suzana
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If a man cannot be a Christian in the place he is, he cannot be a Christian anywhere. - Henry Ward Beecher

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RickC
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by RickC » Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:59 am

I haven't been on the forum much for a while.
I did, however, see this thread recently; (I think even when it was first started).

A Couple Things

First, (and not specifically to: Matt - though I hope you/he sees this) is:
Anything we post on the web can be seen by anyone with a computer.
This being so, we should obviously be aware of this.
That what we post could be found by anyone lends "a word of caution."
What I'm saying is, someone could see what's posted and "tell" anyone.
Or otherwise, see it themselves.

I realize that this forum isn't the busiest around, etc.
However, it does have an edit feature...for anyone who may be concerned about privacy issues.
(If anyone/whoever sees what I'm saying)....


Next, Dreams: Biblical - and Jungian Psychology

The Bible says dreams can come from God. We 'Bible students' know that. This is something of an aside w/r/t this thread, as the dreams discussed were quite apparently 'not God given' (is easy to see).

Going Out on a Limb: Jungian Psychology: the Anima, Animus, and Dreams

I studied the psychology of Carl Jung for several years. On this forum and talking with Steve on the radio, I've expressed disagreements with Jungian Concepts. Most especially, in the philosophy and beliefs of Alcoholics Anonymous, with its "generic higher power" concept of "any kind God or gods." Leaving this - I've found that Jung's concepts of the anima, animus, and dreams to be 'true' in a practical sense. I'll give brief definitions, then an example from my life.

(According to Jungian Theory, very brief, incomplete definitions):
Anima
- in men; the inner feminine or female aspect of the personality; "feelings (and/or nurturing)" oriented; is natural and what we could say is responsible for 'love at first site'; when underdeveloped or neglected, the anima can be 'projected' onto a woman or women or (anima projection), or 'appear' in dreams as a woman or women; in dreams there is, almost always, only one woman.
Animus
- in women; the inner masculine or male aspect of the personality; "thinking (and/or opinion)" oriented; is natural and what we could say is responsible for 'love at first site'; when underdeveloped or neglected, the animus can be 'projected' onto a man or men (animus projection) or 'appear' in dreams as a man or men; in dreams there may be, and often are, several/many men.

These dreams may or may not be sexual in nature, but often are.

Note: the anima and animus aren't considered real ontological entities (i.e., a man doesn't have a literal 'woman' inside him). Rather, these are symbolic aspects or components of the personality.

Case Study w/r/t an Anima Projection in a Dream by Rick_C (me)

I had a dream several years ago of a pretty (very attractive) woman. I was curious who it might be, as it wasn't anyone I recalled ever having met. I wondered if this dream was 'from God' - if it could be my future wife? or if it was just a dream with no significant meaning.

I joined a Christian dating site, years later. I was browsing womens' profiles and saw a lady who very closely resembled the woman I 'saw' in my dream. I "fell deeply in love with her" and couldn't seem to help myself. Knowing Jungian Theory, I knew that this could be an anima projection. And as a Christian, I wondered if this was the woman in my dream - if the dream was from God(?). Also, as a believer, I knew that "falling in love" with someone you haven't even met in person couldn't be the right thing! But it never the less remained true - I was completely fascinated and enraptured by this woman. So I emailed her and we got in touch.

After a writing for a while, it was apparent we would "be friends only." So I got a hold of myself, and consciously 'put a stop' to these very strong romantic feelings of attraction I had toward her. Knowing what an anima projection is really helped me get over "her" (the "her" in my dream and anima projection was NOT the real "her" lady I met on the internet)! Make sense?

So. The anima and animus, according to theory, are 'natural' - like when we fall in love or are attracted to someone of the opposite sex. They aren't inherently 'bad'. But when a man or woman are underdeveloped or have neglected some aspect (in their whole personality); the anima and animus may 'over-react' and get projected onto 'real' people (in a waking state) or 'appear' in dreams.

I don't buy into everything Carl Jung taught. But with his 'the anima' I've found practical value to the idea.

Just a few thoughts....

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mattrose
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by mattrose » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:29 pm

Interesting thoughts Rick, thanks

1. In regards to internet security, I appreciate your warning. While I highly doubt anyone I know would find this thread, I also wouldn't really be worried if they did. I'm a pretty open person and if someone found this I'd be quite willing to have an honest conversation with them. As far as I'm concerned, everything in this thread is very natural for human beings to deal with and I've been able to deal with the situations in wise ways. I'm not really embarrassed by anything in this thread.

2. As for the rest of the post, I can see some truth in what you shared. I remember when I was first attracted to this girl (we were both teens). She was younger than me and REALLY had a crush on me. I really liked her too. I liked the feeling of being liked so much. When I went away to college (17 hours away!), she was idealized in my mind. I didn't really know HER that well. But every summer I'd come home and we'd hang out for an intensive week of camp. So I was really only spending time with her during my annual vacation and that kept her idealized in my mind I think.

And so I think in a sense you are right. She may be in my dreams a lot b/c she represents the very instinctive 'crush', 'love at first sight,' 'ideal,' 'summer fling' kind of relationship.

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mattrose
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by mattrose » Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:38 pm

I wanted to post an update to this thread to show how long-standing certain issues can be.

My last post was in 2009

As for a quick recap, I was frustrated by the fact that even though I was/am happily married, I was still having occasional dreams and thoughts about a previous love interest.

I'd love to say that since 2009 I've had no frustration in this area, but that isn't the case. For a while, the problem went away because she moved South to live on a base (her husband was in the military). But eventually he left her for another woman (he told her on Christmas day that the marriage was over). She spent the next years as a single mother. She matured a lot, got a good job working for a Christian missions trip travel agency, and continued to be an excellent mom.

And each year, especially during the summer when I interacted with her at our annual camp, i was frustrated all over again by a lot of dreams and thoughts about her. I still kept direct interaction to a minimum to avoid stronger temptations. But we are friends. Her daughter has my last name for her middle name. Her son was born on my birthday. I've always had a closer connection with her kids than other kids in the church.

Over the past winter, she started dating a very nice young man in our church (he's actually my step-brother-in-law!) and they got married in February. I even performed the ceremony (this story is kinda crazy, I know!). I am very happy she ended up with such a nice guy. They are a great couple and minister alongside Katie and I in two different church settings.

All that being said, I STILL struggle with the dreams/thoughts. The dreams are frequent even now after camp week. I take the thoughts captive quickly, but they still come. I've never acted on any of these dreams/thoughts since I entered into a relationship with Katie. I don't think I have sinned in this area of my life.

I guess I am just venting my frustration and testifying to God's grace as He has helped me to overcome temptation. This girl is now part of my family. I'll be spending more time with her, not less. But we are both happily married. Perhaps this is just an opportunity for me to prove to Satan that Christ-in-me is greater than the sin-in-me.
Last edited by mattrose on Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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