Question about unmarried mothers

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dwight92070
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by dwight92070 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:22 am

I wish I had not mentioned Mattrose at all in my questions, Morbo, because it's appears that you had one answer, but after reading this thread, you saw where I stood and where Mattrose stood, so you had to "take sides" and delete your answers. It would be very interesting to see your original answers, without having been influenced by this thread.

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RickC
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by RickC » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:32 am

WAY back on Aug 29, 2009, in reply to me, Matt wrote:And so I think in a sense you are right. She may be in my dreams a lot b/c she represents the very instinctive 'crush', 'love at first sight,' 'ideal,' 'summer fling' kind of relationship.
(I hadn't replied).

Interestingly enough, I had a dream this weekend about a young woman I had a 'crush' on when I was in Bible college (around 1980!). I would see her when I emptied her trash can (I was on Work-Study; she was the president's secretary, also on Work-Study).

Back then, she had a 'steady' boyfriend & I felt like asking her 'out' would be wrong. In any event, they got engaged & married. She continued to work in the president's office and seemed VERY unhappy. I would just say "Hello" or maybe "Well, I hope you are feeling better soon" (after asking how she was doing).

In any event, the guy seemed like one of those 'control freaks'. He would come around her office and they would be arguing.

So.

This weekend I had a dream that a 'monster' of some sort had attacked her. I came to her rescue. She exclaimed, "Thank you, Rick!" & I woke up.

Now, once again, I'm not 'into' Carl Jung these days.

But Jung did describe some dreams as being 'compensatory'. Theory being, they provide something lacking in normal (waking) consciousness.

I hadn't thought of this lady for years. But my interpretation of the dream is: 1) I don't have a 'girlfriend' and thus, 2) have no 'crush' on anyone and, 3) this area of my life is basically a 'blank' --- and to sum it up, I, 4) prayed for her.

Jung was Far Out on a lot of stuff. But these inner unconscious feelings or emotions (or whatEVER they are); they can be tricky.

Lastly, when I WAS deeply into Jung (not claiming to be a Christian), I could literally 'control' my dreams to a degree. I kept a log book about them & sought guidance through them.

I'm thinking that, perhaps, through God, you might be able to "will" these dreams away, Matt. I've never done this as a believer b/c most of my recurring dreams are very pleasant (such as: I dream I'm fellowshiping with all my friends from Bible college). This dream needs no interpretation: that fellowship still exists, albeit in mostly memories, though I have contacted some old Bible college friends on Facebook! :)

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morbo3000
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by morbo3000 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:57 pm

dwight92070 wrote:I wish I had not mentioned Mattrose at all in my questions, Morbo, because it's appears that you had one answer, but after reading this thread, you saw where I stood and where Mattrose stood, so you had to "take sides" and delete your answers. It would be very interesting to see your original answers, without having been influenced by this thread.

Dwight
My response was too knee-jerk and not thought through. I didn't change it based on "taking sides," rather I needed to see the context. It's too easy to be absolutist in fundamentalist Christianity. Egads there is such fear and control over gender, sex, sexuality and relationships in Christianity. You'd think we are obsessed about the subjects to the degree of pathology.


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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by morbo3000 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:00 pm

dwight92070 wrote:Morbo,

So in my previous post where I describe my relationship with Dan's wife, or his relationship with my wife, for example, is that what you would call a healthy male-female relationship?

Dwight
Yes. Though descriptive and not prescriptive. I wouldn't limit it to the bounds you describe. Those seem like good bounds for you, but they may be different for others.


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mattrose
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by mattrose » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:54 am

morbo3000 wrote:Sexual attraction is a danger to always be avoided. But in the interest of protecting against immorality, the church often over-corrects by demonizing heterosexual friendships. And a huge culprit is stereotyping men as unable to control desire, and thus all women becoming a temptation for all men. *All* relationships have the risk of being sexualized. Men with men, women with women, men with children... etc. Sometimes sin is a consequence of becoming pathological in an area. Fear of being around women because the relationship might become sexualized can breed sexualization in any male/female relationship. Learning to have healthy relationships with the other gender is actually a sign of health, not risking temptation.
I just wanted to quote this paragraph as it resonated with my feelings on the subject.

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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by dwight92070 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:08 am

mattrose wrote:
morbo3000 wrote:Sexual attraction is a danger to always be avoided. But in the interest of protecting against immorality, the church often over-corrects by demonizing heterosexual friendships. And a huge culprit is stereotyping men as unable to control desire, and thus all women becoming a temptation for all men. *All* relationships have the risk of being sexualized. Men with men, women with women, men with children... etc. Sometimes sin is a consequence of becoming pathological in an area. Fear of being around women because the relationship might become sexualized can breed sexualization in any male/female relationship. Learning to have healthy relationships with the other gender is actually a sign of health, not risking temptation.
I just wanted to quote this paragraph as it resonated with my feelings on the subject.
Dwight speaking here: I would rather take my feelings on the subject from the Bible, not from the words of man. "Pathological" and "over-corrects" and "demonizing" and "stereotyping" and "fear of being around women" are strong and accusative words that, IMO should not be "thrown" at other believers in most cases. This implies that Christian men are mentally and emotionally unstable, which may describe a handful of Christian men, but not the majority.

The Bible says: Treat the younger women as sisters. Flee immorality (yes, sometimes this involves getting away from a certain woman), Let him who thinks he stands take heed, lest he fall. (being overconfident is one's supposed self-control) Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. The Proverbs is filled with warnings about being seduced by an immoral woman. Unfortunately there are some women who are "in the church" who fit that description - possibly because today's church has compromised in many ways.

So, if I am labeled as "pathological" or "being afraid of being around women" because of being obedient to the above verses, then so be it. I can't concern myself about what others think about me. My focus has to be on the Bible and obeying it.

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mattrose
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by mattrose » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:32 am

dwight92070 wrote: Dwight speaking here: I would rather take my feelings on the subject from the Bible, not from the words of man.
Unfortunately, I can't read the rest of your post b/c it is the words of man! Just kidding :) But it's worth pointing out that EVERYONE in this thread is trying to apply biblical statements and principles to real life situations. It is not enough to just say "I'll stick to the Bible" when what's actually being discussed is how to interpret and apply certain verses.
"Pathological" and "over-corrects" and "demonizing" and "stereotyping" and "fear of being around women" are strong and accusative words that, IMO should not be "thrown" at other believers in most cases. This implies that Christian men are mentally and emotionally unstable, which may describe a handful of Christian men, but not the majority.
Actually, I think that was pretty much Morbo's point. Making absolute rules against Christian men have female friendships is a way of expressing a blanket belief that all (or most) men are unable to handle emotions/harmones in a Christ-like way.
The Bible says: Treat the younger women as sisters. Flee immorality (yes, sometimes this involves getting away from a certain woman), Let him who thinks he stands take heed, lest he fall. (being overconfident is one's supposed self-control) Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. The Proverbs is filled with warnings about being seduced by an immoral woman. Unfortunately there are some women who are "in the church" who fit that description - possibly because today's church has compromised in many ways.
Who, in this thread, do you think is dismissive of the verses you are referring to here? In actual practice, I have treated the young woman in question very much like a sister (as I've said, it is only involuntarily that a dream/thought has even entered my mind). I have certainly fled immorality (going out of my way to not engage in intimate conversation or be alone with her). I've been alert to the temptation (talking about it on this message board, for instance). I've identified the devil as the likely source of the temptation. Nor is she an immoral woman.
So, if I am labeled as "pathological" or "being afraid of being around women" because of being obedient to the above verses, then so be it. I can't concern myself about what others think about me. My focus has to be on the Bible and obeying it.
Morbo, it seems to me, was not directing his caution against you in particular, but the church at large. Sometimes, I think we can all agree, the church reacts to one problem by over compensating on the other extreme. The critique would only apply to you if you are admitting to being afraid of being around women.

I think all of us are focused on Jesus and obeying His word, right? Are you suggesting, by claiming this for yourself, that I (or others in this thread) are NOT keeping the focus on Jesus and His word?

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morbo3000
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by morbo3000 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:31 pm

dwight92070 wrote: IMO should not be "thrown" at other believers in most cases. This implies that Christian men are mentally and emotionally unstable, which may describe a handful of Christian men, but not the majority....

So, if I am labeled as "pathological" or "being afraid of being around women" because of being obedient to the above verses, then so be it. I can't concern myself about what others think about me. My focus has to be on the Bible and obeying it.
I wasn't talking about you.
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by morbo3000 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:53 pm

mattress wrote: ... I have treated the young woman in question very much like a sister (as I've said, it is only involuntarily that a dream/thought has even entered my mind). I have certainly fled immorality (going out of my way to not engage in intimate conversation or be alone with her). I've been alert to the temptation (talking about it on this message board, for instance). I've identified the devil as the likely source of the temptation. Nor is she an immoral woman.
I haven't been on the board in awhile, so I have no history with this thread.

But Matt, dude, you are being so generous allowing people to continue to talk about such a private issue. I'm shocked you've let it keep going.
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Re: Question about unmarried mothers

Post by mattrose » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:16 am

On a happy note... the dreams/thoughts seem to be fading away again. It seems to take anywhere from a week to a month each year for them to fade away (usually right around 2 weeks). The thoughts, similarly, fade away. But since I know, year round, that I have this 2-week struggle each year, it makes it a little awkward to interact with her all year long. That being said, a little awkwardness never hurt anybody :)

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