The Sabbath

[Guest]

Hi Steve,

From your tapes, I know Chariots of Fire is one of a few movies that you enjoy. One obvious message of the movie is that Christians should honor God by setting Sundays aside for Him. Should we encourage others to watch this film?

[Guest]

Hi Ben,

The reason that I enjoyed "Chariots of Fire" so much is the same as my reasons for finding other movies, like "The Mission" and "A Man For All Seasons" very refreshing. These movies have a common feature that always moves me (when done well), namely, they all depict real historical people who were willing to make great sacrifices in order to avoid compromising their consciences before God.

Christians differ on many theological matter from one another, but Paul places a very high premium upon the maintaining of an uncompromised conscience--even when the conscience is misinformed about particulars (e.g., Romans 14:1ff/ 1 Corinthians, chapters 8-10). Paul knew that some Christians kept a certain day holy and abstained from eating meat, while others did not, but he respected the consciences of the respective individuals and instructed us to do the same (Rom.14:3-6)

Eric Liddel believed it wrong to run on the Sabbath (which he thought to be Sunday). Thus I disagree with his theology on both points (Sunday is not the Sabbath, and there is nothing to forbid Christians from running on the Sabbath). But he was willing to give up his opportunity to obtain a gold medal (which was pretty much a sure thing, in his case) in order to maintain his conscience undefiled before God.

Likewise, Sir Thomas More was an anti-Protestant Catholic, who is depicted in the "A Man For All Seasons" much more favorably than history would depict him. However, He lost his head and died a martyr because he would not compromise his convictions about the divorce of Henry VIII, and the king's assumption of primacy over the Church of England.

In "The Mission," the heroes were both Jesuit missionaries, teaching Catholic superstitions to the South American natives. But they both lost their lives because they refused to compromise their convictions under pressure.

I disagree with the theology of all of these heroes, but I see so much compromise of conscience in the modern church that I am moved by the depiction of those who, though holding different convictions from my own, were prepared to lose everything rather than to displease God, as they understood HIm.

[Guest]

"Look, the days approach, when I will make a New Covenant with the House of Israel, and with the House of Judah (Luke 22:19 ~ 20, 28 ~30): not like the Covenant I enacted with their forefathers at the time when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the Land of Egypt (Exodus 34); for they then proceeded to brake My Covenant, although I was a Husband to them, says Yahveh. Even so, this New Covenant which I will establish with the House of Israel after these times, says Yahveh: I will place My Torah within them, and on their Heart shall I inscribe it (Ex. 31:18; 34:27 ~ 28). And I will be their God and they shall be My People.....for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will no longer recall." Masoretic Text Jeremiah 31:31-34

Shalom Steve!
I find in hard to believe that you do not know the meaning of "ha Torah/ho Nomos" (i.e. the Law) when it is used in specific (The Decalogue) and in the general (The Scroll of the Covenant i.e the 5 Books of Moses). This is acknowledged by all Jewish and Christian Scholars. You seem to think Jeremiah was unclear as to what he meant by "My Torah"...when in the Scroll of the Torah it details these 10 Commandments, from which all the Covenant ordinances and decrees receive their Authority and Witness. Also, I am shocked that you do not know that it is an ancient Hebraism to call God "Melech ha Olam"...King of the Universe...and His Decalogue the Royal Law. Seems like you play a philiological and grammatical game of "where's the marble" as you switch around your cups. But God is King and His Royal Law was personally inscribed on Stone as "the Witness of the Covenant"....no other Law has this distinction. The Torah thusly inscribed by God Himself was placed within the Ark of the Covenant...even though God would have liked to have dictated His Torah to the People personally Himself (i.e. in their hearts), but they were afraid of God lest they should die from the shock of it (Ex. 20: 18 ~21).

The Five Books of Moses, called "The Scroll of the Torah" presents the Record of God's Paternal role with mankind, His Acts for Mankind and His Royal Law and it's Sinai Covenant complete with all it's Civil, Religious, Dietary, Farming and Health precepts, ordinances, stipulations, blessings for following the Social Contract and punishments for breaking the Social Contract. This Scroll was written by Moses himself, and not by God. And Moses himself added certain legal exceptions to the Covenant Contract because of Israel's hard hearts...this is stated by Messiah Himself. This Scroll of the Torah was distinguished from the Torah itself, and was placed outside the Ark for immediate access.

The Torah (Decalogue) is the Foundation & Witness of the Covenant which has all of the stipulations, regulations, precepts and ordinances. This is fact. It is like the Preamble to the Sinai Constitution of Israel. But this Covenant was made void because Israel's Leadership and Citizenry broke it.

The language of Jeremiah is clear in the Hebrew, in the later Aramaic and Greek translations. Again God shall enact a Covenant with All Israelites (Northern Israel & Southern Judah), but unlike the former broken Covenant which had God's Torah personally inscribed on Tablets for a perpetual Witness, this New Covenant shall have God's Torah inscribed on the Hearts of the Covenant People as a perpetual inner Witness.

There is no uncertainty in the language or usage of "Torah" in this context...nor is the Hebraic parallelism hard to see. Likewise, Paul uses the exact term "ha Torah/ho Nomos" in Romans 7 in the specific, and even cites one of the Torah's 10 Precepts to drive this home!

"Is the Torah mistaken? May it never be said! For I could not have discovered what Sin was except through the Torah. I could not have become aware that coveting was a Sin except the Torah clearly states: "You shall not Covet." Without the Torah, Sin has no reality. Now before My Bar Mitzpah I lived without the Torah, yet when Bar Mitzpah (i.e. the Commandment) took place Sin became a reality for Me. And yet, I died because of my Sin, and that which was given to show me the way to Life only revealed my state of death. For Sin, using My Bar Mitzpah (i.e. the Commandment) as a pretext, tricked me, and through it slew me. So you see, the Torah is Holy, Just and Good."

St. Paul to the Roman Church 7:7~12. MOIT (i.e. My Own Idiomatic Translation...LOL!)

This is the same precise usage of "ha Torah/ho Nomos" in Jeremiah's prophesy of the New Messianic Covenant and it's Testimony of the Heart inscribed Torah of God. I realize you must evade this point because the implications to your own systematic theology will be disrupted. But you ask Me to dismiss the clear statement of Scripture and the parallelism used herein.

Tell Me Steve, what other "ha Torah" of God has the distinction of being personally written by God Himself as the Testimony of His Covenant? You seem to think that the Law of Moses (i.e. the Scroll of the Torah/Pentateuch) which details the Ancient History and Sinai Covenant between God & Israel and the Witness of the Covenant (The Torah),, which is the Law of God, are one and the same. The Law of God (Decalogue) preceded the Law of Moses, and is the Witness of the Covenant contained in the Scroll of the Law of Moses. Direct Divine Revelation testifying to Indirect Divine Revelation. In the Former God writes, directs and presents...in the latter Moses writes, directs and presents.......it is not the Scroll of the Law of Moses that is inscribed by God in our Hearts, it is the Perpetual Witness of His Covenant! The Decalogue. None of the 10 Commandments is Ceremonial...no Rites or Rituals are described therein. All of the Torah is Holy, Just and Good...all are Sanctified, Moral, and Wholesome. Paul Himself declares it and Messiah Himself stated that Loving God and your Fellow Man is the whole intent of this Torah. The First Four Commandments show us how to Love God and the Last Six Commandment show us how to Love our Neighbors.

You statement that the Commandment to Love God & Neighbor replaces the Torah is both a distortion of what Christ said but also misses the point altogether. The Greatest Commandment in the Scroll of the Law of Moses (613 Commandments) is the Command to Love God & Your Neighbor..correct.....but Christ goes on to say this is the whole point of the Torah's !0 Commandments and the Preaching of the Prophets. This Commandment supports, not does away with the Torah.

The whole Hebrew Church was known to be Zealous for the Torah of God(Decalogue), but they lived according to the New Covenant as Nazaraeans, later to be nick named "Christiani" by the Greeks of Syrian Antioch.

"Look! The Days are coming, Adonai says, And I shall be enacting with the House of Israel and with the House of Judaea a New Covenant; not in accord with the Covenant which I made with their forefathers at the time when I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the Land of Egypt. Seeing that they no longer remain within My Covenant, I shall abandon them."

"Now this is the New Covenant I shall be contracting with the House of Israel after these days, says Adonai: I shall impart My Commandments to them, and upon their Hearts I shall inscribe them. I then shall become their God, and they shall become My People.....For I shall make Atonement for their iniquities, and their sins and their Law Breaking shall I under no circumstances still be reminded of."

Hebrews 8:9~12 = LXX Jeremiah 31:31~34 MOIT

Notice that the LXX translates "Ha Torah" as "The Commandments"? It even says that not only shall the Torah's 10 Commandments shall be personally given to His New Covenant People, unlike the Sinai Covenant...but that they shall be inscribed on their Hearts, unlike the Sinai Covenant. The Jewish Scholars who translated the Tanakh (O.T. Canon) from the Hebrew into Alexandrian Greek understood what you say is not to be seen. And the Apostle who wrote this Letter to the Hebrew Nazaraeans validates this translation by authoritatively citing it instead of creating his own version.

The "Law" here is to be understood as the same as referencing the 10 Commandments....not the 613 Commandments of the Old Covenant which has past away with Temple Judaism. There then can be no doubt what Jeremiah meant...as He did not have the Messiah's New Covenant Teachings, Commandments, Precepts and Ordinances. We must stick to the meaning of "ha Torah" in Jeremiah's time and it's usage in the Scroll of the Law of Moses. I must also state, that the term, " The/My Commandments" refers to the Decalogue in Post Exilic Jewish idiom, just as "Ha Adonai/Ho Kurios" came to represent the Name "Yahveh". This is also why "Kingdom of Heaven" is used for "Kingdom of God".

"THE MORAL LAW: The first Table of the Law was considered to express man's duty toward God (Ex.20:3-11) and the second his duty toward his fellow men (Ex. 20:12-17). The New Covenant would seem to follow this division in summarizing the Law (i.e. the Torah), for Jesus said that it demanded perfect Love for God and Love for one's neighbor comparable to that which one has for himself (Matt. 22:35-40)."

"Rather than setting aside the Moral Law (i.e. the Decalogue), the New Covenant reiterates it's commands, develops more fully the germinal Truths contained in it, and focuses attention upon the spirit (i.e. intent) of the Law (i.e. the Torah) as over against merely the letter (i.e. strict sense). So it is that Paul affirms there is but One God (Eph. 4:6: i.e. 1st Commandment) and cautions against idolatry both directly and indirectly (I Cor. 10:14; Rom. 1:21ff: 2nd Commandment). While the New Covenant suggests an attitude toward the Sabbath (Mark 2:23-28: i.e. 4th Commandment) somewhat different from that of Jewish legalism.....it preserves the observance as of Divine institution and enriches it's significance by associating with it Christ's resurrection (Heb. 4:9-16: 4th Commandment)......So, also the New Covenant emphasizes the law of Love (Rom. 13:8-10; Gal. 5:14; James 2:8) and selflessness and humility as representative of the Mind of Christ (Phil. 2:3-8) Although in the New Covenant the Commandments are for the most part by positive exhortations rather than by warnings (i.e. "You shall not...") and prohibitions ( i.e. "Do no..."), the underlying principles are the same....So it is that the Christian is under obligation to Keep the Moral Law (Cf. Matt. 5 :19ff; Eph. 4:28; 5:3; 6:2; Col. 3:9; Heb. 4:9-16; I Pet. 4:15: i.e. The Decalogue), not as a condition of Salvation, but that he might become more and more like his Father in Heaven (Rom. 8:1-9; Eph. 4:13), and this because of Love for the one who redeemed him (Rom. 13:8-10; I John 5:2-3)." By Dr. Burton L. Goddard S.T.D. (Temple University School of Theology). Professor of Bible and Philosophy, St. Paul Bible College, St. Paul, Minnesota. Author:Adventures in the History of Philosophy. Contributer, Wycliffe Bible Commentary
As far as the other Social Laws and the Ceremonial Laws contained in the Scroll of the Covenant, the same Protestant Scholar states in his Article (THE LAW. The Zondervan Pictorial Bible Dictionary, General Editor: Merrill C. Tenny, Zondervan Publishing House. Copy Right 1963, 64 & 67; Eighteenth printing........October 1975):

" By means of the Ceremonial Law, God spoke in picture language of the Salvation He was to effect through the Life and Death of the Incarnate Son. Of necessity, therefore, it was but imperfect nd temporary."

" The Social Legislation governing Israel was designed for a particular culture at given period of history and so it, too, was but for a time, yet the principles which underlay it are timeless and applicable to all generations."

"GOD'S MORAL LAW (i.e. The Decalogue) IS IN FORCE EVERYWHERE AND AT ALL TIMES, FOR IT IS A REFLECTION OF HIS VERY BEING. IT HAS NEVER BEEN ABROGATED, NOR CAN BE."

This is not a Orthodox Jewish Rabbi or Seventh Day Adventist Tractarian or even a little known publication...and this article express the Orthodox Nazrani Thomasine Faith clearly.

As for Weekly Sabbath Observance for the People of God, lets review what was to become the 4th Commandment of the Moral Law. The 7th Day Sabbath was established for Mankind before the Fall (Genesis 1:1-2:3) and declared Sacred by God Himself. The Days after the Fall continued to be reckoned by Adam's Progeny according to the Sabbath Cycle (i.e. 1st Day, 2nd Day, 3rd Day, 4th Day, 5th Day, 6th Day & 7th Day, which equals one week: Genesis 7:4, 10; 8:10,12). This Seven Day Cycle of reckoning was perpetuated in the Abra'amic Times unchanged (Genesis 29:27-28), and we know from Akkadian, Sumerian and Chaldaean archeological evidences that the 7th Day was even called "Sabbutu" among them and was a taboo by these Pagan Mesopotamians from which the Hebrews descended from. They also held the 14th, the 19th, the 21st, and the 28th Days of the Month in awe.The Hebrew People observed the 7th Day Sabbath prior to the Giving of the 10 Commandments/Torah inscribed by God on Two Tablets (Exodus 16:23; 20:1-17; 34:1-5). So you see, that of all the 10 Commandments the 4th was declared and established for MANKIND from the very beginning...not for Hebrews only. " Sabbath was established for Humanity's benefit, and not Humanity for the Sabbath's benefit."

Notice Messiah goes back to Eden for His explanation of Sabbath Observance, and not to the Tablets of the Torah given at Sinai along with the Mosaic Scroll of Covenant; all of which the Jewish Leadership had broken and made void by their vain human traditions (Rabbinic "Oral Law").

The Early Nazarani Church, most of whom were Jews, kept the 7th Day Sabbath. But since Messiah's Resurrection took place on the First Day of the Jewish Week (i.e. Saturday sunset until Sunday sunset), they began very early to also worship and fellowship on Saturday evenings and also on Sunday mornings as a weekly celebration of the Lord's Day of Resurrection. Both the 7th Day Sabbath and the following Lord's Day where celebrated together; the former viewed as the week terminating Day of Community Rest, Personal Relaxation, Spiritual Study and Fellowship and the latter viewed as the week commencing Day of Community Celebration, Worship and Fellowship. Thus they saw their Sabbath Day & Lord's Day Observances as a perpetuation of their Ancient Israelite Faith continuing from the Old Covenant of Moses unto the New Covenant of Messiah.

St. Paul continued the Jewish Fiscal Custom of having the Nazarani Communities of the Greek Diaspora to collect alms from their weekly incomes the poor Nazrani of Jerusalem. These Alms were to be placed into their Community Chest before the start of the Sabbath. No charity was to be gathered or tabulated once the Sabbath had begun, but on Sunday, when work was acceptable, these Alms could be recorded and tabulated as to the amounts; then when Paul himself visited he could collect the Alms for the Jerusalem Nazarani himself (I Cor. 16:1-4). This is still the practice of Jewish Orthodoxy. All the week's business and banking is to be finished before sunset on Friday, then after the Sabbath was over (i.e. on Sunday) the prior week's financial books can be balanced, all payments can be made and all prior income can be tabulated and dispersed into savings accounts, business accounts, personal accounts and charitable accounts. St. Paul simply recommends this weekly Fiscal Practice to the Nazarani Community in Corinth as the proper Sabbath Respecting method he had already set into practice among his Nazarani Communities in Galatia.

So it is clear that the Torah (Decalogue) remained in full force in the Apostolic Nazarani Communities established by Messiah's Apostles during the earliest years of the New Covenant. All 10 of the Torah's Commandments where perpetuated, honored and observed.

Yet in the years after the Last Jewish Revolt in 135 A.D. when the split between Post Second Temple Judaism and Nazarani Judaism (Christianity) became final many Gentile Christians within the Roman Empire came to gradually to meet only on the Lord's Day as their Christian Sabbath in order to fulfill the 4th Commandment and chose to give up the Seventh Day Sabbath as merely an old Jewish custom and judaizing superstition. During the polarizing and failed Jewish Revolt under the False Messiah Judah BarKosava (132~135 A.D.) against Roman Dominion, the Church in the Roman Empire was by this time predominately GraecoRoman in membership and now governed by their own Gentile Clergy. Unlike those outside the Roman Dominions, these Communities began to detest all things which seemed Hebraic or Jewish and began to renounce any and all practices and perspectives that did not reflect the majority GreacoRoman culture of the predominantly Non Jewish Church.

Those Hebrew and Aramaic speaking Nazrani (Jewish & Oriental Nazaraeans) in Asia Minor, Syria, Galilee, Samaria, Judaea, Idumaea and Egypt which persisted in their governance by the Hereditary line of the Messiah's Family, or who retained Sabbath Observance, Circumcision, the Israelite Calendar and Jewish habits along with Lord's Day Observance and Orthodox Christianities Dogma and Sacraments were now denounced as sectarians who resisted "Catholicism" for Judaizing. Yet these Nazarani were not Judaizers, nor did the demand Gentile's become circumcised under the Mosaic Covenant to become full New Covenant Nazaranis...as did the heretical Judaizing Evioni'im (i.e. Ebionites) of Judaea and the Jordan Valley. This is the origin of AntiSemitism in Western Christianity (whether Roman Catholic, Protestant or Eastern Byzantine Orthodoxy).

Only in the Semitic Nazararni Churches founded immediately East and Southeast of the Roman Empire (i.e. Armenia Minor, Armenia Major, Colchis, Assyria, Mesopotamia, Nabataea, Arabia, Sabea, Nubia, Abbyssinia, Atropatene`Media, Media, Elymas, Susiana, Persia, Parthia, Amardia, Hyracana, Margiana, Bactria, Aria, Drangiana, Carmania, Gedrosia, Arachosia, Chorasmia, Sog'diana, Gandara~Hindu'kush, Pamir, Hindush Valley, Sindh, Goa and Kerala) persisted with Sabbath/Lord's Day Observance just as they received it from the Apostles themselves.

This then is the history of the GreacoRoman suppression of the 7th Day Sabbath with the Roman Empire as an out dated Jewish Custom.Here lies the origin of the isogetic hermanuetic developed to support the supplanting the 7th Day with the 1st Day. Later Protestants, seeing the inconsistency of this interpretation, would reject observing the Lord's Day as the Christian observance of the 4th Commandment. They dismiss all Sabbath Observance as Judaizing custom and would seek to allegorize away the 4 Commandment altogether, even going so far as to consider the Torah abrogated completely under the New Dispensation of Grace which is Chartered under the New Covenant...leaving only a generalized principle of Loving God and One's Neighbor as the sole Commandments in the Christian Dispensation. This is the history of your very own position and hermanuetics employed to support it.

A must read on this very subject is Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchii's ground breaking work: "From Sabbath to Sunday", which is His reworked Doctoral Dissertation received, approved by Papal Imprimatur and published by the Pontifical Gregorian University Press, Rome (1977). Even though he does not follow the Roman Catholic Church's party line on this Topic, the Vatican acknowledges his expertise in Biblical Languages, Exegetics, Church History, Theology and Apostolic Sabbatarianism. They made him a Doctor of Theology! And he is not even a Roman Catholic! He exegetes the all relevant Hebrew & Greek Biblical Texts, as well as All Sub Apostolic Fathers, Apologists, Anti Nicaean Fathers, Nicaean Fathers, Synods and Councils of the West and East. A very Comprehensive and exhaustive Study. It convinced me in the Mid 1980s, and I find him to be one of the few Seventh Day Adventists Scholars who are honest, objective and will buck the SDA party line when his research demands it. I can say this rarely about some other touted Western (Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant) Scholars.

So just explain why you cannot see the clear message of Jeremiah's prophesy concerning the New Covenant and it's Covenant Witness of the Decalogue being inscribed in our Hearts using the LXX text and Masoretic text of the Tanakh usages of "ha Torah/Ho Torah"...as well as what any other "Torah/Laws" you can discover which where/are inscribed by God personally as a Covenant Witness any where else in the totality of Revealed Scripture. No shell games.....just simple exegetics and grammer usage.

Since Messiah and His Apostles cited and used the LXX Text and Canon of the Tanakh primarily, I hope you can stick to this Version in Greek or English Translation (The Septuegint, published by Zondervan is ok), but if the Masoretic Text is your preference lets agree use J.P.Green's Interlinier Version with Literal Translation if you like...it works well with the Unger's or Strong's Exhaustive Hebrew/Greek/English Concordance. Any English Version will do, as I own most. But if you own a 1901 American Standard Version we could use this Version as our English textual territory through which we can sojourn and mine for gold.....it retains the linguistic beauty and style of the 1611 Authorized Version, while correcting most of it's manifold mistranslations, updating many of the corrupted textual authorities once used and the archaic Elizabethan grammar and vocabulary which no longer represents early 20th Century American grammar, vocabulary and idiomatic usages. What say ye to this good Sir? Aye? LOL!

After we deal with this issue we can then proceed to your other questions.

In Messiah,
Ken

:lol:

[Guest]

This thread has been going on for so long that I can't remember everything that was said by myself or others, and which things were not. Nor do I have time to go back and read the whole thread. I presented my understanding of this topic on the first page of the thread, and it has not, to my recollection, ever been answered. That is, there has been not exegetical answer to the New Testament thoughts presented there that has given occasion for me to understand them differently.

By now, Ken, you should be aware that I am not half so interested in what the Nazarani or Christiani practiced in post-apostolic days as I am with what Jesus and the apostles actually taught and practiced.

You have not convinced me that Jesus was trying to tell the Pharisees that the sabbath was given to all mankind, and not just the Jews, in Mark 2:27, since there is a more obvious meaning of His words, and the point would hardly be relevant to anything that was being discussed in the passage.

Jeremiah speaks of the law written on the heart, it is true, and Hebrews quotes him. Paul also alludes to Jeremiah's words in 2 Corinthians 3:3, 7. In these verses, Paul is clearly talking about the ten commandments, because he mentions them being "engraved on stones" (v.7) and "on tablets of stone" (v.3). However, throughout his discussion, Paul appears to be likening this Torah—which he calls "the ministry of death" (v.7) and "the ministry of condemnation" (v.9)—to the glow on the face of Moses, and contrasting this with the Gospel, which he calls "the ministry of the Spirit" (v.8) and "the ministry of righteousness" (v.9), and which he equates with the glory of the New Order in Christ.

The significant thing that Paul keeps repeating is that the "glory" on Moses' face which "was passing away" (vv.7, 13) is like that of the former covenant, which, in his time, he could say "is passing away" (v.11). That is, the whole Mosaic order was about to disappear with the destruction of the temple. This same fact is mentioned in Hebrews 8:13—"that which is obsolete is ready to vanish away", which, incidentally, is also in the context of discussing Jeremiah 31.

You say that there is no ritual law in the ten commandments. I suppose we will have to merely disagree on the definition of ritual law. As I look at the ritual laws of the Old Testament, generally, what I see is laws about holy places, holy objects, holy ministers, holy furniture, holy seasons and holy days. The observance of every holy day resembles the observance of the sabbath—no common work was to be done on them, and there was to be a holy convocation held. I don't see any difference between these monthly and annual rituals, and the weekly ritual—and apparently, neither could Paul, who listed them all together, along with dietary regulations, as temporary ordinances having validity until the (first) arrival of the Messiah (Col.2:16-17).

Jesus Himself (John tells us) "broke the sabbath" (John 5:18), and defended His disciples against the Pharisees' criticism, when they broke the sabbath (Matt.12:1-8). Sabatarians, when discussing these passages, desperately claim that it was not the sabbath that was being broken by Jesus or the disciples, but only the rabbinic traditions about sabbath observance. This simply isn't true, as can be seen by the answers Jesus gave to the criticism in each case.

In John 5, Jesus did not say, "Hey! Hold on a minute with those rocks! I am not breaking the sabbath as God gave it to Moses...only the human traditions your fathers added to the Torah!" In His answer, Jesus took it for granted that He was, in fact, doing His customary work on the sabbath (which is what the law forbade men to do). He justified it on the basis that He was His Father's Apprentice, and He was imitating His Father's work habits, which did not include taking a break for sabbath from ordinary activity (John 5:17, 19).

In Matthew 12, when Jesus could have corrected the Pharisees by pointing out that they were judging by tradition, rather than by Torah, if He had felt that that was what at issue, He did not choose to do so. Instead, He implied that His disciples' violation of sabbath was the moral equivalent to David's violating the law of shewbread (Matthew 12:3-4). David really did break a law of God—not a mere tradition of the elders. However, it was a ritual or ceremonial law, and his needs were urgent. If the comparison with David has any relevance to the case (and if it does not, why did Jesus use it?) then Jesus was teaching that His disciples were indeed breaking the sabbath law, but that they were, nonetheless, "guiltless" (v.7) because:

1. It was a ceremonial law, like the sacrifices of the tabernacle, and could be violated when pressing concerns involving human well-being were present (v.7);

2. They were going about the business of Son of Man (who was Lord even of the sabbath), and were as justified in violating the sabbath on this errand, as were the priests who "profane the sabbath" in the course of their temple work (vv.5-6, 8);

3. The sabbath was created to be a boon to man—not to enslave him in such a way as to prevent him from doing legitimate and necessary things (stated in the parallel passage: Mark 2:27).

Paul mentioned the observance of "one day above another," along with dietary regulations, in Romans 14, where he seemed to believe that people could follow different paths according to their respective consciences in such matters (vv.2-6).

Paul seemed to support the right of those Christians who choose to "esteem every day alike" (Rom.14:5). The model of Jesus and the disciples was not to observe the sabbath, but to observe every day alike (as the above two stories from the gospels illustrate). Jesus said, "It is lawful to do good on the sabbath" (Matt.12:12)—and this is precisely what Christians are supposed to be doing every day of the week (Rom.2:7/Gal.6:9-10/ Tit.2:14; 3:1, 14/ 1 Pet.2:15)!

[Guest]

i heard steve gregg's teaching:

aut11-The Law of Moses and the Christian.mp3

in which he claims that sabbath is not part of God's moral law but rather ceremonial law, and therefore a christian is not obligated to obey it.

i strongly disagree for the following reasons:

1. God states clearly that we are not to work on the sabbath because He ceased His creative works on the original sabbath of creation. therefore the sanctity of sabbath and God's desire that we uphold it is related to the fact that God cannot lie. sabbath is a moral observance because our rest imitates God's rest and is part of His essential being and it testifies that all creation will come to a time of rest.

2. You are correct that Jesus deliberately sought confrontation with the pharisees over sabbath observance. he did this in various ways, mostly involving miracle cures and healings. Jesus justified these actions by saying that His Father works on the sabbath and so do I. this means, however, that God is doing salvational works, not creative works. Jesus nowhere tells His followers that they should pursue their business objectives on sabbath. i do not believe He would countenance this, and the loss of sabbath reverence is responsible in my opinion for the massive degradation of our society today.

3. Jesus' argument with the pharisees was NOT over whether to work on sabbath or not, for in my mind He clearly opposed private and profane activities on sabbath. Jesus' argument was how best to sanctify the sabbath. Jesus said that doing acts of salvation is sanctification.

4. The OT states repeatedly that the sabbath is a gift from God. woe to those who spurn God's gifts. every christian knows that man needs time to rest and to withdraw from secular pursuits. most christians are not in full time spiritual pursuits. those who have secular jobs five days a week need and deserve a break. Why would Jesus seek to take this away from us?

5. You rightly observe that Jesus intensified everything in the Decalogue. I believe He did so about sabbath as well. Sabbath is a rest time not for indulgence or gluttony, as the jewish orthodox sabbath tends to become, but a time for spiritual liberation and salvation. The worship music we have in our churches on sabbath is an example of the spiritual intensification of sabbath that Jesus mandates to us.

6. I just read a book about John Paton, the famous scottish missionary to the new hebrides canabals. He was a very strict sabbath observor, and i would suggest with all due respect to people in this forum that they pay heed to his example, for he was an awesome man of God, who served self-sacrificingly far beyond what most of us will ever do, who stared death in its face day after day and stood by sabbath observance. He imposed his vision on the canabals as well, and it went a long way to help win them to the Gospel. let us humble ourselves and learn from others who utilized the fruits of proper sabbath observance for the Kingdom of God.

7. The question of whether to observe sabbath on saturday or sunday is an old and vexing one. i don't believe it is too important, except that ideally the community should respect the same day to foster community solidarity.

8. Finally, concerning whether or not sabbath observance is a moral law or not, i would humbly suggest that the prohibition of undertaking secular remunerative work is definitely a moral law, on par with stealing, for when we work for salary on sabbath we are stealing from God's sacred time.

michael pk[/b][/b]

[Guest]

The sabbath was made for man not the man for sabbath. Secondly the law was for the children of Israel. It does clearly show in a significant way the spiritual concept of rest but Hebrews has now shown us that today is the day of rest for as long as today is today. Christ satisfied this in Himself and we as Christians honor each day as a day unto Him.

[Guest]

Michael: Thanks for joining in.

Its really not a matter of the moral law or ceremonial law. The Sabbath is old covenant and was done away with in practice. As Paul wrote, “…now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit.” And, “…the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.” And as was confirmed by the writer of Hebrews, “By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete.”

Christians do not observe the Sabbath of the old covenant, but the Lords Day of the new covenant.

Blessing on you brother.

[Guest]

The sabbath was made for man not the man for sabbath.

that's right. so sanctify it in an edifying manner.


Secondly the law was for the children of Israel.

the Decalogue applies to all. Jesus intensified it for Christians. i maintain he intensified sabbath as well, asking us to find the inner spiritual essence of sabbath. but nowhere does Jesus tell us to work for remuneration on sabbath, and whoever does so in my opinion steals from God and is guilty of the entire law.

It does clearly show in a significant way the spiritual concept of rest but Hebrews has now shown us that today is the day of rest for as long as today is today. Christ satisfied this in Himself and we as Christians honor each day as a day unto Him.

that is true. but most of us work for a living, and we are meant to set aside one day in complete honour of Him. this is so obvious to me i cannot fathom why you all stumble over this most elementary of teachings.

do you really think you can fix your eyes on God during your brow sweated toil as easily as on a fully sanctified day of rest?

let me in on the secret!

_________________
Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business and to work with your hands

is this your standard closing or do you intend it for me in particular?

[Guest]

Christians do not observe the Sabbath of the old covenant, but the Lords Day of the new covenant.

Blessing on you brother.

Jesus made it clear throughout the New Testament that He is the Lord of the Sabbath.

so logically the Lord's Day is the Sabbath. they are one and the same. observance on sunday fine. but Lord's Day = Sabbath.

clear as day.

[Guest]

Show me a man who can fix his eyes on the Lord any day of the week and I will show you a redeemed man.

Michael PK, if a person wants to be fixed under the Law then that person will be judged by the Law. I have no problem with any day being made more important then another if that is what someone choses to do but we are told not to do this and I guess it would be because we tend to magnify the day instead of the reason.

Best wishes to you as you strive to present yourself wholely acceptable. I know God will bless your heart.