Women's attire...

Post by **_Paidion** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:12 am

Well, I didn't intend to post to this thread, but I think it's about time for me to express my observations.

Men are primarily visual when it comes to being attracted to women. It seems to be the way they were created. Without a doubt, it is those women who "make the most of themselves" who are more likely to have men falling all over them. It also natural for women to try to appear attractive to them. I don't think these natural inclinations are any less for Christians than for others. In some cases, Christians attempt to suppress them. I am not sure that this is necessarily healthy.

For me personally, physical attraction was, as has been said, "only one part of the equation". It was mostly feminity, not "acting, moving, and eying the opposite sex" [I would say "other" sex], but having a humble, giving spirit.

By the way, the word "modesty" nowhere occurs in the King James Version of the Bible.

In the RSV, "modesty" occurs twice, in I Cor 12:23, where the word so translated actually means "honour", and in I Tim 2:5, where the word so translated actually means "self-control".

In my opinion, men are going to be attracted to the other sex. Whether or not they sin, depends upon what they do about that attraction --- what they do in their actions including their thought life. I suppose the same thing applies to women.

Yes, a woman can wear thick, baggy, unattractive clothing that will prevent men from looking at her twice. But how will that solve any problem? There are plenty of others that will attract the gaze of men. Men's natural desires will not be thwarted.

Post by **_Homer** » Wed May 17, 2006 10:45 am

Paidion,

You said:

Yes, a woman can wear thick, baggy, unattractive clothing that will prevent men from looking at her twice. But how will that solve any problem? There are plenty of others that will attract the gaze of men. Men's natural desires will not be thwarted.

You are correct in that it may make no difference regarding the person who has a lustful heart but we should not cause, or contribute, to someone stumbling, particularly at a weak moment. Nothing good in "adding fuel to the fire".

Rae,

Bless you for bringing this up! Would that Christian women would be more concerned regarding this and not be "conformed to the world".

Blessings, Homer

Post by **_djeaton** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:51 am

Steve wrote:As a male, I do tend to notice if an attractive woman is "strutting her stuff"—and I would not be candid if I were to deny that it appeals one element (the lowest) in my human nature.

When women dress and act in such a way to appeal to man's lowest element, they cheapen themselves. When I was a kid, my dad taught me something that I never really appreciated to its full extent until later. "If you don't sell it, don't advertise it."
D.

Post by **_Rae** » Wed May 17, 2006 12:23 pm

Paidion wrote: Yes, a woman can wear thick, baggy, unattractive clothing that will prevent men from looking at her twice. But how will that solve any problem? There are plenty of others that will attract the gaze of men. Men's natural desires will not be thwarted.

I am reminded of the verse about how stumbling blocks must come, but woe to him through whom they come. I know that a guy who will lust after one woman will lust after another, but my inclination is to assume that Christian woman would not want to be the object of that man's lust.

Now, I'm not sure if that verse in Luke 17 applies across the board. I've heard of guys confessing to another brother that they lusted after that brother's wife when the wife was not wearing anything close to inappropriate or doing anything inappropriate. I don't think that verse would apply here.

Do you guys think that we have generally overapplied this verse (Luke 17:1) in Christian circles?

Post by **_Anonymous** » Wed May 17, 2006 12:58 pm

Rae wrote:Do you guys think that we have generally overapplied this verse (Luke 17:1) in Christian circles?

Are you referring to your example about the man lusting after a brother's wife, even though she did nothing to elicit his attention? Are you asking if the woman gets blamed for his stumble? Maybe that happens. I am sure it happens in the world and some of the weaknesses of the world show up in the church.

I wonder what the male counterpart is to what we're discussing. I know that Christopher mentioned muscles and, um, other attributes, but I hardly ever notice if a guy is "built" unless it's extreme and then it just seems weird to me.

Post by **_Rae** » Wed May 17, 2006 2:29 pm

I guess I was moreso giving an example of how that verse might not be applicable in certain situations. And then I was asking if anyone else thought that maybe Christians have at times overapplied this verse to fault women where there really was no fault (other than the man's).

Post by **_Christopher** » Wed May 17, 2006 3:02 pm

Hi Rae,

In my opinion, it's absurd to fault a woman for stumbling a man whether she intended to or not. Every man is himself responsible for his own sinful thoughts. Jesus said:

Matt 5:28
But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

He clearly puts the responsibility on the person doing the looking. Having said that, I also think it is a woman's resonsibility to not intentionally "add fuel to the fire" as Homer so well put it. Perhaps the Luke 17 passage can be applied here if she intends to stumble a brother, but certainly not unintentionally, in my opinion. But I think there is a difference between causing "one of these little ones to stumble" and tempting a fully culpable adult man.

Post by **_Anonymous** » Wed May 17, 2006 4:07 pm

Rae wrote:I guess I was moreso giving an example of how that verse might not be applicable in certain situations. And then I was asking if anyone else thought that maybe Christians have at times overapplied this verse to fault women where there really was no fault (other than the man's).

Yeah, that's what I meant. I guess it probably has happened. My guess is that's why some groups dictate what sort of clothes women should wear to make sure that a woman isn't being a stumbling block without intending it.

Post by **_glow** » Sat May 20, 2006 2:58 am

Hello everyone

I don't know but I feel like maybe the odd man out here ( or should I say woman)I have met many folks in my life that maybe on the outside dressed more conservative or some more landish for insecurities within their human self or some other frailty, but as people trying to walk in love they were all very similar in their devotion. And this some times can include seekers. I always figured you make a better "judgment or assessment" on the persons heart/character vs their outer appearence.

I am at the age where I am getting a little gray in my hair and dye it off and on because I like it better that way. I also wear light make up and dress basically in a more jeans type natural style.Some times I wear a long skirt , fairly conservative,some times not. I also tend to dress a little more "bohemian at times, maybe the artist in me, or an old 60s cast off, I'm not sure why..

To some I might appear vain and some not dressed up enough. But I think my father is pleased in me, my individuality he created me to be, so I hope my attention stays mainly on his judgment of me and not others.

I also read in another thread on whether it was proper for a woman to have long hair and if it was to "attractive " to men, maybe that was not being modest ( I am not quoting verbatum here) either. I have always worn my hair very long and simple. I get nice comments from both sexes on my hair at times, so should I cut it? I don't see how that would make me any more modest or "appealing" to my Father in heaven.I feel very blessed to have as much hair as I do at my age and I guess as my kids used to say to me, No mom don't cut your hair, it wouldn't be you!

I guess my point once again is, if your heart is in the right place isn't that where our attention should go?Everyone struggles with some thing in their life and as Christians I would hope we would be slow to judge others for their appearence or really any other struggle they may be dealing with, but concentrate on coming along side of them, in loving friendship, with care as needed.

I hope I am not coming across smug, I don't mean to be.I just feel as Christians Christ forgave us for SO much. I think we stand on a very fine line ourselves between judging others in a way that causes others that are struggling to stay away rather then wanting to draw closer and in turn grow in their faith or even desire to be saved in the first place by our actions towards them.. And in being to restrictive, we also can lose a chance to grow more ourselves in our own walk.

Just my thoughts. Glow

Post by **_djeaton** » Sat May 20, 2006 7:19 am

glow wrote: To some I might appear vain and some not dressed up enough. But I think my father is pleased in me, my individuality he created me to be, so I hope my attention stays mainly on his judgment of me and not others.

I think if every woman dressed to make her Father proud and every man remembered Whose daughter they were gazing upon, a lot of these issues would go away.
D.