Remembering Past Sins/Mistakes

[Guest]

Hi Brian,

Still, would one not run into problems if they thought that their holy living (or their refraining from sin) is what maintained their salvation?

So wouldn't it be easier to maintain your salvation so that good works flow from it because of the presence of the Holy Spirit? To my mind, it is easier to abide in Christ than to try to impress him with whatever I do.

Would you still say that if a person fully embraces this that they are not succumbing to a type of gospel of works?

Yes, I would say that a person who thought that doing good works and avoiding sin in order to maintain their salvation was succumbing to a gospel of works. Poor thing.

What exactly would it look like (practically) for one to abandon the gospel of grace for a gospel of works?

Practically, it would be impossible from the outside appearance to tell the difference, except possibly the lack of joy in the life of a person trying to secure his salvation through works. Say you and I were at church on the same morning when an announcement was made about a new ministry to poor people. You think, "Man, I've let a lot of stuff slip through the cracks lately. I'm not sure if I'm still in God's good graces. I'd better sign up for that in order to chalk up some plus points." Two rows back I'm thinking, "That sounds like it would bring honor to Jesus and I feel the Holy Spirit prompting me to do this." After the service we would both head to the information table and sign up. We would both show up at the appointed time and give of our time and effort. Only our motivations would differ.

[Guest]

Hi Brian,

You wrote:

Still, would one not run into problems if they thought that their holy living (or their refraining from sin) is what maintained their salvation? Would you still say that if a person fully embraces this that they are not succumbing to a type of gospel of works? What exactly would it look like (practically) for one to abandon the gospel of grace for a gospel of works?

Zeal for good works is what we have been redeemed for (Tit.2:14/ Matt.5:16/ Eph.2:10/ 2 Cor.9:8/ 1 Tim.2:10; 6:18/ Tit.2:7; 3:1, 8, 14/ Heb.10:24). But "good works" are not the same as "works of the law." These refer to religious rituals (e.g. circumcision, religious festivals, abstinence from unkosher foods, etc.). It is the latter that Paul is concerned about in Galatians.

An example of what constitutes a good work is seen in James 2:15-17--

If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Tabitha was said to be "full of good works." This referred to her labors to provide needed garments for widows (Acts 9:36, 39).

Acts of mercy and generosity to the poor are never inappropriate. Likewise, acts of justice (upholding the rights of others) and faithfulness (keeping one's commitments and obligations) are necessary. "Good works" really just means "righteous (Christ-like) living."

I am not sure what a "gospel of works" means. If it means one believes he can be saved without Christ by simply being good enough, or that he can obtain forgiveness of sins by counterbalancing his misdeeds with an equal or larger number of good deeds, then that person has not yet understood why Jesus came, and needs to learn about the unworthiness of man and the grace of God.

I doubt that you are ignorant of your unworthiness and you probably have an awareness that Jesus died for your sins. If you acknowledge that it is the mercy of God in Christ, and not your own effort, that saves you, I am not sure how you could be in danger of succumbing to a "gospel of works."

On the other hand, there is the danger of neglecting good works because of someone telling you that good works may somehow pose a spiritual danger. I know of nothing in scripture that speaks of this danger, and I cannot imagine what danger, other than pride, might accrue. Pride, however, will not be a problem if we are aware of our own sinfulness and unworthiness, so I don't know that this is as much a danger to the true Christian in his performance of good works as some preachers seem to imply.

Perhaps the reason you are having these struggles is that you are sitting under teaching on the grace of God that lacks biblical balance. Some preachers speak as if they think grace is just another word for leniency. God's grace, to them, means He doesn't really care that much what we do day by day. This has nothing to do with the biblical concept of grace.

Leniency means moral apathy. God's grace is not lenient or apathetic about moral issues. Jesus spoke about moral issues as much as did any religious teacher. Leniency says, "I don't condemn you. Go and sin to your heart's content." Grace says, "I don't condemn you. Go and sin no more." Leniency permits moral failure. Grace does not permit moral failure, but forgives it.

When we are regenerated, grace comes to reign as sin formerly reigned (Rom.5:21). In scripture, grace is that teacher that inwardly instructs us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, and to "live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world" (Tit.2:11-12). God's grace given to us is the sufficiency to abound in "every good work" (2 Cor. 9:8).

The grace of God is not contrary to good works. Therefore, the "gospel of grace" is never contrasted in scripture with a "gospel of works." We are not to have the impression that God will accept us after we have performed a sufficient number of good works, nor that He forgives our sins because we have counterbalanced the deficit by the abundance of our good works. We are accepted by our Father because we are His children. That is also why we obey Him.

My children, when young, were required to obey me and live by my rules and standards. However, their status as children in our home was never contingent upon their obedience. Obedience was their duty because they were children. It had no impact upon the question of why they were my children or how they came to be such.

We do good works in obedience to Christ because it is what Christians are required to do. We do these things cheerfully because we love Him. These works makes no contribution to our status as sons, but they are called for because our sonship is, upon other grounds, established.

[Guest]

Hi Brian,

Part of the problem is that we’ve been conditioned to think of "salvation" as something we possess and keep, like a ticket to heaven or something. However, to the best of my knowledge, the bible doesn’t describe it this way.

Rev 7:10
"Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"
NKJV

I think the very wording of phrases like “lose” or “maintain your salvation” sets up a legalistic religious system in our minds by default. That’s not the language of love, but of legalism.

I know I’ve said this before, but I think it’s worth repeating. If we compare our relationship with God with our marriage, we might get a closer sense of what salvation really is. It’s not a contract to make or break, it’s a cherished relationship with someone we love and want to please.

If I ask the question “what must I do to maintain my marriage?” then my focus is on the wrong thing. The better question is “what would please and bless my wife?”

The former leads us to buy our wife flowers either out of a sense of duty or in order to reap the benefits of being on her good side. The latter leads us to buy them for her as an expression of our love and a desire to bring her joy.

It’s the same with our relationship with God. If we’re focusing on our salvation, we’re probably not focusing on what would please God.

I truly believe God wants to be known by His children as a loving Father rather than merely a judge of right and wrong monitoring for breaches in a "salvation" contract.

I think He wins our affection and obedience by the grace that He shows us so that the question is not “what must I do to be saved” but rather “what’s important to my heavenly Dad?” (like justice, mercy, and faithfulness). God is concerned with much more than mere obedience, He’s concerned with love…”Against such there is no law” (Gal 5:23).

The question to ask in all circumstances is this: “what is the loving thing to do?”

I really think it’s as simple as that.

[Guest]

Steve,

Thanks for your response. I'd like to highlight one segment:

I doubt that you are ignorant of your unworthiness and you probably have an awareness that Jesus died for your sins. If you acknowledge that it is the mercy of God in Christ, and not your own effort, that saves you, I am not sure how you could be in danger of succumbing to a "gospel of works."

I certainly fit the above bill. Yet, I know of some who promulgate that there is a heretical type of Arminianism which states that salvation can be lost by sinning. On another thread on this forum you have described this position (I've copied the relevant part below). When you described it (it was one of three views that touch on the subject of whether sins past, present, and future are forgiven at salvation) it was clear that you said that some Christians do, in fact, believe this.

So, you clearly believe that even if someone believes this, they are simply mistaken and not relying upon their works (holy lives) to save them? Because some people think this view may be heretical and because certain thoughts like these have attempted to inculcate my mind, this is why I have struggled so greatly. What if those who believe this are right? I really don't feel that they are, but doubts have crept in at times.

You description of the view is below"

"Another view holds that we must repent of each sin that we commit in order to maintain our salvation. On this view, even though Christ died for all sins, past, present and future, 2000 years ago, we did not personally benefit from any of this until the point in time when we repented of all past sins at our conversion. Of course, He died for our future sins as well, and we can be forgiven of them all on the basis of that same sacrifice, but we must continue to repent in order to appropriate current forgiveness each time we find that we have sinned.

This view takes seriously 1 John 1:9, but it may not give adequate consideration to the status of a child of God, as opposed to an unbeliever. We know that the unbeliever is at enmity with God, and is under the wrath of God. He needs to repent in order to avoid ultimate condemnation. Is a believer, who falls into sin, also under God's wrath? Is he in the same position as an unbeliver, needing to be saved again each time he falls short of the glory of God?

If this is the case, then salvation seems to be only a series of pardons, applied to the most recent case of sin and confession. There is little recognition of the changed status of the child of God after regeneration. He is essentially of the same status as the unbeliever, except for the fact that he regularly repents."

http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=565

From what I gather (and from what others have contributed in another thread), believing this is not tantamount to a works-based salvation, even though living a holy life is directly connected to salvation. I have simply wanted reassurance that if I succumb to a wrong feeling (or belief) like this from time to time that I am not in jeopardy of falling into apostasy.

I like what Chris wrote below, too:

I truly believe God wants to be known by His children as a loving Father rather than merely a judge of right and wrong monitoring for breaches in a "salvation" contract.

Thanks,
Brian

[Guest]

So are our sins forgiven past, present, and future, based on what Christ accomplished on the cross?

One friend from a women's Bible study my wife attends, said to her, "My sins are forgiven past, present, and future. I could go out and murder someone tomorrow, and even if I didn't repent, I'd still go to heaven."

How many of you think think our friend was correct?

It looks a whole lot to me as if "faith in the blood of Christ" from that viewpoint, is a license to sin. It's exactly the position which I, myself, held from age 14 to age 24.

[Guest]

Paidion--

i think what the lady said regarding committing murder is a logical extension of what many of us hope, namely that if we commit a sin and then die before confessing/repenting, we will not lose our salvation.

i happen to believe this is true. the murder scenario is a little more difficult because it is questionable whether a true christian would murder somebody. lots of true christians might, however, tell a white lie or have a fleeting lustful thought. i dont think confession/repentance is necessarily the key, because i dont think it is possible for us to remember to confess every particular sin that we might commit. ideally we would, but again i am not sure this is 100% possible.

TK

[Guest]

Paidon-

Apart from your rather extreme example, are you saying that salvation is contigent upon repenting of a particular sin?

Without branding you as one who would accept this, how many troubled saints are out there who, despite their separated life and love for the Lord, think that committing a particular sin or doing things the wrong way could cause the Savior's love to depart from them?

Is salvation up to me or is it up to God our Father? The former believes that, in some sense, they have to do everything right (repent, confess, abstain from sin, live holy, etc.) for God to stay with them. The focus, in this sense, never leaves self. Yet, with the latter there is much freedom. Not freedom to live licentiously, but freedom to serve God without the always scrupulous examination of ourselves and whether we are in or out of His love.

Like you, I don't believe that all my future sins are forgiven today. I believe I must perservere till the end. Yet, my assurance is not based on my life of living holy and abstaining from sin per se, it is based on God's keeping me through my faith in Him.

Would you cast out your child if he ever sinned (even willfully) against you? I am a father of two young children, and I couldn't even dream of such a thing!!!

The only way that we can ever have peace is to focus off ourselves and onto Him. In the meantime, we may not do all we can to make everything right, we may be negligent at times, we may forget to keep our word, we forget to repent of a sin we committed, but "the blood of Jesus Christ will continue to cleanse us of all sin" as we maintain our fellowship and communion with Him.

Brian

[Guest]

the enemy is a "liar".... When we have confessed our sins HE is just and
able to forgive and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness....I was plagued
many years as I listened to the accusations of the evil one. The Lord
showed me personally not to dwell on past sins and not to self talk them
in my head.

God gives grace to the humble (you)
resists the proud.

[Guest]

Hi MLH,

How did the Lord reveal that to you? Was it easy to obey? By "self talk them in my head" do you mean going over and over them wondering why you ever did those things? Lately I've been plagued by nightmares about sins I committed years ago. I hate it because I can't get enough sleep. And praying doesn't seem to help ... yet.

[Guest]

How did the Lord reveal that to you? Was it easy to obey? By "self talk them in my head" do you mean going over and over them wondering why you ever did those things? Lately I've been plagued by nightmares about sins I committed years ago. I hate it because I can't get enough sleep. And praying doesn't seem to help ... yet.

Hi Michelle,
It is interesting that the devil is able to cause us to think about our past and even to instigate a dream. It takes some practice to capture these thoughts and bring them into obedience to Christ (2 Cor 10:5). The Lord has told us instead to meditate on good things (Phil 4:8) which suggests that we can purposefully change our thoughts at will. I like Psalms for helping me to switch my thoughts when something seems to take hold that is difficult to put down. Also a song like "He is able" is helpful too.