Is there a scriptural case against marijuana use?

Post by **_Allyn** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:26 pm

To paraphrase one of Jesus' teachings - let the weed grow with the fruit.

Post by **_Ely** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:05 pm

Okay, let me explain my thoughts and flesh this out a little:

"The drunkenness/sobriety/self-control" angle

The scriptures speak often and strongly against drunkenness and seeking after wine. For example, on several occasions, Isaiah speaks out against those who follow after wine, "yayin" and strong drink, "shekar" (Isaiah 5:11, 12 22, 24:9 etc.) These prohibitions are repeated several occasion sin the apostolic writings (Matt. 24:44, Eph. 5:18, 1 Tim 3:8 etc.) According to Proverbs 20:1, wine is "a mocker" and strong drink is "a raging." Wine and strong drink were not to be partaken of by those in positions of influence and power like priests when officiating at the altar (Lev 10:9) and kings (Prov. 31:4).

However, wine and strong drink are clearly not in themselves unclean as they were both to be included in drink offerings (Lev 28:7, 23:13). Further, the scriptures also speak positively about wine and strong wine. For example, the Lord gave instructions on what the Israelites were to do with the second annual tithe:

"26 You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine [yayin], or strong drink [shekar], or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household."
Deut 14 NASB

(it's funny that the NKJV decided to translate this passage "wine and similar drink" Seems like the translators were uncomfortable with God telling His people to enjoy strong drink!)

Then we read in Psalm 104 that:

"14 He causes the grass to grow for the cattle, And vegetation for the service of man, That he may bring forth food from the earth, 15 And wine [yayin] that makes glad the heart of man, Oil to make his face shine, And bread which strengthens man’s heart." Psalm 104 (cf. Ecc. 9:7)

So, here's my premise: While drunkenness is prohibited, God gave wine to man in order to make the heart glad! The scriptures do not place a blanket ban on any intoxication of any kind. Yes, to be consumed and to loose self-control due to wine is wrong, but that is not to say that it's impossible to enjoy wine's 'euphoric' qualities in moderation and safety.

Now, if we grant this premise, then can this not also apply to other substances. Having been a partaker of it for several years in my unsaved days, I know that a person will not automatically loose self-control when using marijuana. On the contrary, most people I know can use it and still be in a sound mind. I know I could.

The pharmakeia angle

For me, this is not a strong argument. The fact that pagan magicians used drugs in ancient times and that the word used in the NT for sorcery is related to the word for pharmacy is of little if any relevance unless somebody is arguing that Christians should use drugs in pagan rituals. After all, alcohol has long been used in pagan magic, but this does not automatically mean that to partake of alcohol would be akin to pharmacy. So why do we make this same leap with other substances?

Drugs are okay for medicinal use

But why make this distinction between medicinal use and recreational use and how do we define medicinal from the recreational?

So....
I'm beginning to think that in actual fact, drug use in itself is not wrong. What is wrong is following after drugs, using them to the point of losing self-control and also using them if you know it will make a brother stumble.

So, any thoughts. Am I heading toward a licentuousness?

Ely

Post by **_STEVE7150** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:26 pm

Ely, Did'nt Paul say something like "be sober minded and alert" which i don't think is the goal of smoking pot. Sipping wine is one thing ,it's harmless ,it may even be healthy but pot smoking is destructive to the body. And what is the goal of pot smoking, does it bring us closer to God or make us oblivious?

Post by **_djeaton** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:33 pm

Maybe the question should be stated as "Is recreational use of chemical substances (meds/drugs) allowed by Scripture?" I don't like the flavor of alchohol and don't drink recreationally, but when I have a bad cold, nothing seems to help me as much as a good dose of NiQuil.
D.

Post by **_Ely** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:20 pm

STEVE7150 wrote:Ely, Did'nt Paul say something like "be sober minded and alert" which i don't think is the goal of smoking pot. Sipping wine is one thing ,it's harmless ,it may even be healthy but pot smoking is destructive to the body. And what is the goal of pot smoking, does it bring us closer to God or make us oblivious?

But what about wine? Does drinking wine draw a saint closer to God? Does wine make one more alert and sober? I know exactly what you mean but I'm struggling to see why we should have one standard for marijunana and not apply the same standard to wine.

Also, you say that wine is harmless, but there are many people who would say that marijuana is no more dangerous than wine, alcohol. I think there may be a good case to be made that it's not the mariuana itself that is the problem, but more the way in which it is used - same with alcohol.

On thing, we are assumng that marijuana has to be smoked. I would agree that to smoke anything would be to wifully damage one's lungs which is unscirptural. But then again, marijuana does not have to be smoked. It can also be eaten and drunk in tea among other things.

Come to think of it, there are so many things that we wilfully put into our bodies which are in some way damaging (sugar, cafeine, saturated fats, empty calories etc.). If we are going to prohibit Marijuana use because it is harmful to the body, then we need to be consistent and apply the same principle to other subtsances.

Let me just make clear, I am not advocating that Christians should use marijuana. I'm just trying to think this thing through. I'm beginning to think that we have created a law that is not given to us in the scriptures.

ybiM,
Ely

Post by **_Ely** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:25 pm

djeaton wrote:Maybe the question should be stated as "Is recreational use of chemical substances (meds/drugs) allowed by Scripture?" I don't like the flavor of alchohol and don't drink recreationally, but when I have a bad cold, nothing seems to help me as much as a good dose of NiQuil.
D.

But how do we draw these lines between "medicinal" and "recreational"? By recreational, we usually mean that we are doing something just to enjoy ourselves (like the "strong drink" in Deuteronomy 14:26), or make our hearts "glad" (like the "wine" in Psalm 104:15 perhaps?)

But let's look at this a bit closer. Suppose I have a really bad day at work. I get home and I just want to relax. I pur myself a glass of wine and put on some praise and worship and just chill. Now, is this "medicinal" (helping to alleviate stress) or "recreational"?

Post by **_Allyn** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:00 pm

But let's look at this a bit closer. Suppose I have a really bad day at work. I get home and I just want to relax. I pur myself a glass of wine and put on some praise and worship and just chill. Now, is this "medicinal" (helping to alleviate stress) or "recreational"?

Only between you and God will it be known, and that is the point. There was a tribe in Africa, so I've been told, that would drink large quantities of water in some sort of ritual. The amount they drank made them tipsy and thus they were as drunk men. Its not what is being taken, in most cases, but the amount. However, to better qualify this; our country (USA) has laws by which govern us against things that have been proven harmful. Then it becomes a moral issue. We also have moral issues that are placed in us by various other influences. I don't drink any adult beverage because it is wrong for me. But I do drink alot of Diet Pepsi which and even to the point that it replaces my water intake. This to some is harmful and wrong. To me I have no problem with it nor any command or law against it. If I was a stumbling block to another over this I would refrain in their presence. Thus I go back to my original post with how we should conduct ourselves according to Scripture.

Post by **_Frank** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:42 pm

We are to love the Lord our God with all of our soul and all of our might and with all of our mind. MJ is a mind altering drug. Our body is the tempel of God and that includes the mind.

Post by **_glow** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 4:34 pm

Frank and others

I would agree MJ is a mind altering drug, but I can also see why Elly is struggling with it in the sense if we compare it to wine as stated in the bible. Wine can also be mind altering and when it is compared in use to "happiness" in the bible,that sounds mind altering to me yet is acceptable..

I know of folks who struggle with drink but are basically self medicating themselves, and results in their lives are anything but positive, but I have seen them in times of stress only use MJ and I have found it hard to admit they do handle their lives better , it appears to be a much better "self" medication for them.Some just the opposite.

I know ultimately were are to draw all our strength from the Lord only and the body. But in reality as we walk out our lives on this planet everybody uses something to get by in their days and I quess I would agree with Allyn, in what I see as a gray area, it is personal in the end between you and your Lord, if I am reading him right..

I am addressing this as if these drugs "were" legal. Being that they are not and we are to honor our government , my answer could be alot different. I guess then it could boil down to , are the laws we have in place regarding Mj etc. against Gods word , so we are free to not have to follow them because , Gods law goes over mans. We are to follow God first.

Like in abortion cases,, Just because our government says it is ok to have an abortion and in some states even allows kids under 18 to be shielded from their parents knowledge to recieve what they choose on their own , are we to say it is ok to follow it because our gov. has said it is ok?

I have heard and been involved in this debate before, regarding illegal drugs and abortion.. Seems like it always ended up as a stalemate. .

Just my thoughts Glow

Post by **_Ely** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:09 pm

Glow, you summed it up very nicely. I guess it's the first time I've really, seriously considered it. Up til now, I've been happy to assume that marijuana use is always wrong. This has been based on the general perception of drugs in wider society. But considering it scripturally, it's not at all clear cut.

As an aside, I'd be interested to see what kind of attitudes the early church had toward alcohol.

ybiM,
Ely