Musings on animal sacrifices

[TK]

1. Were animal sacrifices in widespread use by pagans prior to the law of Moses, or did the law originate the idea? If it was used by pagans prior to Moses, why did God choose to endorse something that pagans did?

2. Why do several scriptures indicate that God took no pleasure in animal sacrifice if He commanded that they be performed? Was his displeasure a sign that he did not want them, or an indication that he was sad they were necessary?

TK

[steve7150]

If it was used by pagans prior to Moses, why did God choose to endorse something that pagans did?

2. Why do several scriptures indicate that God took no pleasure in animal sacrifice if He commanded that they be performed? Was his displeasure a sign that he did not want them, or an indication that he was sad they were necessary?






I doubt God endorsed it but he probably put the value of the blood sacrifice in the conscienceness of humans even before the written law.

Just a guess but i think God was saddened that sacrifices were still necessary.

[TheEditor]

Hi TK,

Good question. Aside from the earliest record of Abel's sacrifice, my opinion is that they were also used by pagans and that God did not want or need them. I believe He accommodated the desires men had to "appease" God by having laws governing their use, much as laws governing other actions that men engaged in but did not have God's approval. However, I think this dynamic created a template that Jesus easily filled; I think of it as a way of gearing men's collective thinking so that they would be open to Christ, or, it could also be that Jesus was offered as a way to appeal to that part in man that needs to expiate for sin by an outward symbol.

Regards, Brenden.

[Paidion]

1. Were animal sacrifices in widespread use by pagans prior to the law of Moses, or did the law originate the idea? If it was used by pagans prior to Moses, why did God choose to endorse something that pagans did?

Clearly animal sacrifices were in widespread use prior to the law of Moses. God didn't endorse it. The Hebrews wanted to sacrifice to their God as the pagans did to their gods. So God granted it as a concession, and having granted it, told them exactly how to do it.

This may be compared to the Hebrews insisting on having a king like other nations, whereas God wanted them to be ruled by judges. But at their insistence, He permitted it, but He warned them that they would regret it, and He indicated whom they should choose as their King, namely Saul.


2. Why do several scriptures indicate that God took no pleasure in animal sacrifice if He commanded that they be performed? Was his displeasure a sign that he did not want them, or an indication that he was sad they were necessary?

He didn't want animal sacrifice. He didn't command them to be performed; rather, at their insistence, He allowed it, and then since they insisted on it, told them HOW to do it.

For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices. But this is what I commanded them, saying, ‘Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.’ (Jeremiah 7:22,23)

[steve7150]

He didn't want animal sacrifice. He didn't command them to be performed; rather, at their insistence, He allowed it, and then since they insisted on it, told them HOW to do it.








Paidion,
Didn't God give very detailed instructions on the building of the tabernacle which was for the sacrifices? Can you show where the Isrealites insisted on sacrifices and where God simply allowed it?

[dizerner]

1. Were animal sacrifices in widespread use by pagans prior to the law of Moses, or did the law originate the idea? If it was used by pagans prior to Moses, why did God choose to endorse something that pagans did?

Noah sacrificed animals, and a good argument can be made for Adam and his family. Their fig leaf clothing (representative of good works) had to be replaced with animal clothing (which animals had to die, representing grace). Also Abel sacrificed his sheep, but Cain's vegetables were rejected (representative of a works religion giving to God from the cursed soil of our sin nature). It seems highly likely that Cain knew he was suppose to sacrifice an animal but refused to go to his brother to get one out of hatred for him. Also the whole logic of "pagans did it" so God's people shouldn't seems quite faulty.

2. Why do several scriptures indicate that God took no pleasure in animal sacrifice if He commanded that they be performed? Was his displeasure a sign that he did not want them, or an indication that he was sad they were necessary?

Never are animal sacrifices condemned in and of themselves but rather in conjunction with a wrong heart sacrificing them. The only verse directly in support of stopping animal sacrifices was a prophecy of the Messiah's role and function to replace them. Notice carefully the context:

Sacrifice and meal offering You have not desired;
My ears You have opened;
Burnt offering and sin offering You have not required.
Then I said, “Behold, I come;
In the scroll of the book it is written of me.
I delight to do Your will, O my God;
Your Law is within my heart.”

Only one man who ever lived fulfilled this passage, only one man who ever lived delighted to do God's will completely and had God's Law written on his heart: Christ. And of Christ it was written "in the scroll of the book" that he would be the ultimate sacrifice all these animals foreshadowed and represented. If you read Hebrews 10 you can see Paul's comparison of the shadow and the reality it represented, as well as a reference to this Psalm (but in the LXX, which translates "my ears you have opened" as "but a body you prepared for me").

Just a heads up, you will find Paidion on here preaching that Moses was mistaken and didn't hear God most of the time. However you'll only find the utmost respect for Moses among Paul, Christ and the rest of the Bible.

God bless.

[TheEditor]

Noah sacrificed animals, and a good argument can be made for Adam and his family. Their fig leaf clothing (representative of good works) had to be replaced with animal clothing (which animals had to die, representing grace). Also Abel sacrificed his sheep, but Cain's vegetables were rejected (representative of a works religion giving to God from the cursed soil of our sin nature). It seems highly likely that Cain knew he was suppose to sacrifice an animal but refused to go to his brother to get one out of hatred for him. Also the whole logic of "pagans did it" so God's people shouldn't seems quite faulty.

Hi Dizerner,

How "Origen"-like of you. I've heard the "skins" were a metaphor representing something greater. Maybe. Maybe not. As for Cain, the Scriptures are clear why his sacrifice was rejected, he "originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother. And for the sake of what did he slaughter him? Because his own works were wicked, but those of his brother were righteous." Cain’s deeds were wicked, not because he offered vegetables (grain offerings were also part of the Law code)but Cain lacked good motive. Instead of being reproved by God and turning to do good, he "slaughtered" his brother. Besides, both of their offerings were "works righteousness" because it takes work to tend a sheep just like it takes work to till the soil.

Abel’s sacrifice was accepted because it was offered in faith. Abel did good.

Regards, Brenden.

[dizerner]

Abel’s sacrifice was accepted because it was offered in faith. Abel did good.

Faith has to have an object—grace. If you want to make it about Abel's works, you nullify faith according to Paul.

For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose

Besides, both of their offerings were "works righteousness" because it takes work to tend a sheep just like it takes work to till the soil.

You can't take a type too far... the Law says the life is in the blood and the meaning of the sacrifice is in the death, and the representation it makes of Christ our Passover Lamb.

Because his own works were wicked, but those of his brother were righteous." Cain’s deeds were wicked, not because he offered vegetables (grain offerings were also part of the Law code) but Cain lacked good motive.

Well, you're engaging in speculation as much as me, you clever debater. We are not told if Cain's hating his brother was the only issue of disobedience in Cain's life, in fact there's some evidence that some text fell out here at some point (the LXX adds a nice line where Cain says "Let's go out into the field.") But if Cain's hatred of his brother made him refuse to get a Lamb, then the two issues already became joined into one. I'll grant we're both speculating at this point, but it seems more biblical that Cain's vegetables were not what God wanted on the table, despite their being some grain offerings in the OT (which by the way, you will not find linked with propitiation as far as I know, because the blood makes propitiation for the soul, because the life is in it, life for life).

Blessings.

[jriccitelli]

Thanks for answering above Diz. Animal sacrifices started when God made a 'covering' for Adam, the sacrifices were thus known to everyone after, even to Noah who then built an alter and offered sacrifices to God. Death and thus sacrifice were a payment for sin, that is clear as day. But offering was a payment due, not to make the worshiper better, but to make a point about sin. Our acknowledgment of sin, and thus Gods grace in accepting our offering for sin, we would hope caused the worshiper to change his ways. If we quit sinning we wouldn't need sacrifices, but I know no one who has honestly ceased to sin, that is just human nature. But having a true relationship with the LAMB who died, will affect you, positively, I hope.

[Paidion]

Some years back, I began to write a book entitled "The Supreme Sacrifice of Jesus Christ."

The 3rd chapter is "Sacrifices and Offerings."
You might want to take a look at it. I think it addresses some of the ideas and questions brought up in this thread.

http://www.theos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=817