Is our life-span fixed?

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robbyyoung
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Is our life-span fixed?

Post by robbyyoung » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:01 am

Hello All,

Luke 12:20 & vs.25 (NASB), seems to indicate we have a due date to stand before YAHWEH. If this is the case, our timeliness and due diligence is of the utmost importance, is it not? If this isn't the case, and our time on this earth IS NOT set by YAHWEH, please provide scriptural support as we discuss this further.

God Bless.

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TheEditor
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Re: Is our life-span fixed?

Post by TheEditor » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:39 am

Hi Robby,

Good question. I would say at first blush that this isn't what I take away from the parable. It seems to me more that Jesus was using an illustration of a man who spent his whole life chasing riches and hoped to finally relax from his anxieties by retiring on that which he had spent a life aquiring, only to die that very night. Call it a kind of a Greek Tragedy, if you will. But there was a moral to the story:

"So it goes with the man that lays up treasure for himself but is not rich toward God." (Luke 12:21)

The counsel?

“On this account I say to YOU, Quit being anxious about YOUR souls as to what YOU will eat or about YOUR bodies as to what YOU will wear. For the soul is worth more than food and the body than clothing. Mark well that the ravens neither sow seed nor reap, and they have neither barn nor storehouse, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more worth are YOU than birds? Who of YOU by being anxious can add a cubit to his life span? If, therefore, YOU cannot do the least thing, why be anxious about the remaining things? Mark well how the lilies grow; they neither toil nor spin; but I tell YOU, Not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. If, now, God thus clothes the vegetation in the field that today exists and tomorrow is cast into an oven, how much rather will he clothe YOU, YOU with little faith! So quit seeking what YOU might eat and what YOU might drink, and quit being in anxious suspense; for all these are the things the nations of the world are eagerly pursuing, but YOUR Father knows YOU need these things. Nevertheless, seek continually his kingdom, and these things will be added to YOU. (Luke 12:22-31)

My take away is that anxiety can shorten ones life, but not lengthen it, and that ultimately we need to rely on God and be rich toward Him.

Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]

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robbyyoung
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Is our life-span fixed?

Post by robbyyoung » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:57 am

Thanks Brenden,

However, Job 14:5 seems to be less ambiguous .

God bless.


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TheEditor
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Re: Is our life-span fixed?

Post by TheEditor » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:30 pm

Hi Robby,

Well, Job is poetry. But I would say the sense of "determined" is a reference to our "determined" life on earth. God has "determined" our years to not exceed 120. The Scriptures indicate that a man's years are 70, or by special mightiness 80, and all effors have been relatively fruitless to extend it longer. This was written 3,000 years ago and such is still the case. (As an aside, one of my pet peeves is when I hear it said that people only lived to be about 50 a hundred years ago. This is bunk. "Average" life span was 50 because of chilhood death. Take a walk through an old cemetary and you'll see this is the case. Most people that made it to adulthood lived to be 60 to 80 years of age.)

Anyway, that's how I would read it, not that each of us has a "set" day and hour, but that we have a "determined" number of years (70 or 80).

Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]

steve7150
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Re: Is our life-span fixed?

Post by steve7150 » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:58 pm

However, Job 14:5 seems to be less ambiguous Image.








Yes Robby on the face of it Job sounds like he makes a definitive statement. Yet it seems if we live a healthy lifestyle as opposed to abusing our bodies we generally will live longer therefore since it's a poetic section as Brenden said then i think it's conditional. In other parts of the bible i think it suggests certain healthy things we can eat (like Ezekial bread) that are beneficial to us and are things God provided so i take it as conditional.

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robbyyoung
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Re: Is our life-span fixed?

Post by robbyyoung » Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:10 pm

Thanks Brenden. What I find interesting in this discussion as a whole, amongst believers, is the close comparison in the debate of Calvinist thinking. Such as; God knowing when we will die doesn't mean HE appointed the matter. Rather, HE effectively works HIS will by the means of HIS knowledge.

Very interesting .

God bless.



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Paidion
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Re: Is our life-span fixed?

Post by Paidion » Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:43 pm

Here is an English translation of Job 14:5 from the Septuagint, which may be closer to the original Hebrew than our present Masoretic Hebrew text type:
If even his life should be but one day upon the earth: and his months are numbered by him, You have appointed him for a time, and he shall by no means exceed it.
This "time" which appointed to man, may not mean an individual time for each person to die, but might mean the 70 years which are generally appointed to man:
The days of our lives are seventy years; And if by reason of strength they are eighty years, Yet their boast is only labor and sorrow; For it is soon cut off, and we fly away.(Ps 90:10)
It seems incredible that God would appoint a particular time to die for each individual, especially in view of the fact that thousands of babies die before they have lived even one day upon the earth. Why would God appoint the death of a baby to occur just a few hours after its birth?
Paidion

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dwilkins
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Re: Is our life-span fixed?

Post by dwilkins » Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:11 am

If it's fixed, someone is going to have to explain the story of Hezekiah.

Doug

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robbyyoung
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Is our life-span fixed?

Post by robbyyoung » Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:07 am

Paidion wrote:Here is an English translation of Job 14:5 from the Septuagint, which may be closer to the original Hebrew than our present Masoretic Hebrew text type:

"If even his life should be but one day upon the earth: and his months are numbered by him, You have appointed him for a time, and he shall by no means exceed it."

This "time" which appointed to man, may not mean an individual time for each person to die, but might mean the 70 years which are generally appointed to man:
Hi Paidion, thanks for responding. However, if this does not refer to each individual's appointed time, the latter part of the verse makes no sense at all, "...and he shall by no means exceed it." If this is referring to Psalm 90:10, we obviously have a glaring contradiction. For many people exceeded 80, 90, and even the 100 mark!

God Bless.
Last edited by robbyyoung on Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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robbyyoung
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Is our life-span fixed?

Post by robbyyoung » Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:27 am

dwilkins wrote:If it's fixed, someone is going to have to explain the story of Hezekiah.

Doug
Hi Doug,

Thanks for responding. YAHWEH knows all things and yet this story seems to support even stronger the idea of an "appointed time", for Hezekiah - in the end, was given, in-fact, an appointed time, which was NOT to be exceeded.

Unless one subscribes to the theory of YAHWEH truly NOT knowing all things, this puts mankind back in control of his life span and the life span of others. Which is a more dreadful an awful thought. YAHWEH being reactive instead of proactive in HIS creation. However, knowing all things puts YAHWEH in a position that doesn't frustrate HIS purposes for HIS creation. By knowing He can appoint.

I don't think Hezekiah refutes the idea of appointment, but rather supports it in the end. I'm still asking questions, but I haven't seen scriptural support yet for "this appointment" being other than what is suggested.

God Bless.
Last edited by robbyyoung on Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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