Is our life-span fixed?

[Homer]

So was God involved in this battle or not?

Joshua 10:6-14 (NASB)

6. Then the men of Gibeon sent word to Joshua to the camp at Gilgal, saying, “Do not abandon your servants; come up to us quickly and save us and help us, for all the kings of the Amorites that live in the hill country have assembled against us.” 7. So Joshua went up from Gilgal, he and all the people of war with him and all the valiant warriors. 8. The Lord said to Joshua, “Do not fear them, for I have given them into your hands; not one of them shall stand before you.” 9. So Joshua came upon them suddenly by marching all night from Gilgal. 10. And the Lord confounded them before Israel, and He [d]slew them with a great slaughter at Gibeon, and pursued them by the way of the ascent of Beth-horon and struck them as far as Azekah and Makkedah. 11. As they fled from before Israel, while they were at the descent of Beth-horon, the Lord threw large stones from heaven on them as far as Azekah, and they died; there were more who died from the hailstones than those whom the sons of Israel killed with the sword.

12. Then Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel,

“O sun, stand still at Gibeon,
And O moon in the valley of Aijalon.”

13. So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped,
Until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies.

Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. 14. There was no day like that before it or after it, when the Lord listened to the voice of a man; for the Lord fought for Israel.


I had been thinking all along that it was actually God that parted the Red Sea, not Moses, and that God killed all the Egyptians who tried to follow the Israelites. And I thought God killed all the firstborn at the Passover.

[robbyyoung]

Well, it seems that we are way off topic but that's ok. Let me respond, in general, to some of the misrepresentations of my position. First, I specifically said God is just and righteous in all of HIS "ra" ( H7451 - ra`):

Isa 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

adj

bad, evil
bad, disagreeable, malignant
bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)
evil, displeasing
bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)
bad (of value)
worse than, worst (comparison)
sad, unhappy
evil (hurtful)
bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)
bad, evil, wicked (ethically)

in general, of persons, of thoughts

deeds, actions
evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
evil, distress, adversity
evil, injury, wrong
evil (ethical)
evil, misery, distress, injury
evil, misery, distress
evil, injury, wrong
evil (ethical)

Therefore, I have been accused of contradicting Ezekiel 18:32, 33:11, I'm a supporter of Calvin and of course a BLASPHEMER!

Why? Because of misrepresentation and careless discernment of what scripture says. I have NEVER said that God takes pleasure in executing HIS "ra", NEVER! I simply used the word "desire", as given to us in scripture; ('avvah) Hosea 10:10 "It is in my desire that I should chastise them;..."

I NEVER disputed God's transcending LOVE through and above all things??? I'm simply pointing out "A" chracteristic in that LOVE. And for this I'm misrepresented and a blasphemer??? Whatever.

Let's look at this "ra" chracteristic in the light of God's transcendent LOVE. Is it not clear, right here in Hosea, God's desire to chastise or punish?

Therefore, DO NOT accuse anyone of saying God takes pleasure or joy in the harshness of such things. Also, when HIS "ra" is executed, HIS punishment and/or judgement is attributed to HIS transcendent LOVE. Again, DO NOT accuse anyone of saying God takes pleasure in it.

STOP misrepresenting what I refer to as God's desire to execute HIS "ra" in punishment and/or judgement, coupled in HIS transcending LOVE.

Therefore, we know God's desire or will is to punish or even judge those to whom HE loves. We also know HIS punishment and judgements can be very grievous. Some argue that God loves every Human Being, well ok, let's take this as truth. Would this, then, account for all the terrible bloodshed executed BY GOD's created "ra"? And wouldn't HIS transcendent love apply here as well? These people in these nations were clearly punished, and judged, to include Israel. If Heb 12:6 "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth." only extends to a limited amountof Human Being, "The Saved", well still, does this void HIS transcendent love for the rest, I say NO. For HIS judgements are just regardless. There's no pleasure or joy but a fact.

But let me regress to God's "ra" coupled with HIS punishment and judgement. There are some who, mistakenly say, 'God doesn't kill children and babies'. Again, you're wrong! I'll submit one text. I refer you to 1 Samuel 15:2-3 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

You CANNOT dettach God for HIS actions which reflect HIS transcending love! No matter how grievous it may appear to you. I've tried to state my case by upholding HIS love through all HIS actions, not being fearful of them, but to include them.

God Bless.

[Paidion]

So Homer, you accept the words just as they are written. Right? How about?

...so the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies. is it not written in the book of Jashar? and the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. (Joshua 10:13 NASB)

How can the sun stand still, if it is not moving? In actual fact, if the record is true, it must have been the earth that stopped turning. Right? Are there any stories or traditions in other parts of the world that this happened?

Perhaps the record is correct in speaking of large hailstones which killed more of the Gibeonites than the Israelites killed with their swords. If that happened, it would be natural for them to think that the God they served had "thrown the hailstones" from heaven. The Israelites were people of war and destruction like the nations around them. Was it really necessary for Joshua to have them trap the 5 kings in the cave, and then bring them out and put their feet on their necks and so kill them? Why wasn't their victory over their enemies sufficient? But they were men of violence and assumed that God was the same, and so ascribed the hail to Him.

In our day, when the tsunamis struck, like-minded people said that God was punishing the people who suffered and died as a result. Of course, He doesn't kill US in these ways, since WE are not evil like THEM!

No, all of this needs to be rejected in light of what Jesus taught about His Father. I am a Christian and I believe Jesus, and not the ascription to God by Moses or Joshua or anyone else, as the creator of natural disasters in order to kill people. Jesus said that the Most High God is kind even to ungrateful people and evil people. (Luke 6:35). Never once in Jesus' life did He kill anyone or order His disciples to kill anyone or cut off women's hands, or stone to death rebellious sons, or any such thing. And He was the exact imprint of the Father's essence (Heb 1:3). Instead, He did not condemn the woman caught in adultery, although under the law she would have been stoned. He simply asked her to go and sin no more.

[john6809]

Hi Paidion, I believe Moses' and Joshua's account of those events. That doesn't mean that I think God causes tsunamis to kill people for their disobedience today. The circumstances of this day and age are vastly different than when God was establishing Israel as His chosen people.

The question I have for you: if the Israelites were chasing the Amonites and killing them with the sword, and the hailstones were NOT sent from God, then the Israelites should have been destroyed at roughly the same rate since the hailstones would have been indiscriminate.

In this case, would the writer really have been daft enough to think God had sent the hail? It seems with that thinking, they would have reached the conclusion that God was fighting against them too. They would truly be delusional.

I have always wondered at explanations like that. Just doesn't make sense to me. Thanks for your response.

John



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[dizerner]

[user account removed]

[robbyyoung]

You CANNOT dettach God for HIS actions which reflect HIS transcending love! No matter how grievous it may appear to you. I've tried to state my case by upholding HIS love through all HIS actions, not being fearful of them, but to include them.

It's not blasphemy to say God judges people's sins, it's blasphemy to say that God causes or desires people to sin. His judgment is not his love, his judgment is his holiness. His warning is his love, his giving his creation ability to obey him is his love.

LOL! Who are you, the blasphemy police? You're the only one attributing Isa 45:7 with sin on God's part! God's "ra" IS NOT sin. It is Holy in its purpose, for it is created by a Holy God. Actually, you may be the one in danger of blasphemy, by not believing God's "ra" is Holy. Hmmm...

You've said twice now that God's judgements are not HIS love, but Holiness. I contend that you are partly right. I was using The Universal Reconciliation thought process of God's love, which by default, would transcend the judgement on the wicked or unsaved. I don't subscribe to this, I was just making a comparison. However, Heb 12:6 refers to the saved, and God's judgements is HIS love. Or how about 2 Cor 5:10, is God's love absent here? Here's another one, Jer 9:24, God says lovingkindness, judgement, and righteousness is what HE exercises and delights in on the earth. Yes, delights in judgement favorable to HIS love.

Again, and lastly, STOP attributing Isa 45:7 with sin on God's part. Big mistake on your part!

God Bless.

[steve7150]

It's not blasphemy to say God judges people's sins, it's blasphemy to say that God causes or desires people to sin. His judgment is not his love, his judgment is his holiness. His warning is his love, his giving his creation ability to obey him is his love.








Well i think his judgment his His love and holiness and everything God is. But "sin" is missing the mark and that mark is God's will. So if God's will is different then what we may expect we s/b open to all possibilities.

[dizerner]

[user account removed]

[dizerner]

[user account removed]

[robbyyoung]

Robby I only hope that if you see something you consider blasphemy, you love God enough to say something about it. Mocking me with the term "blasphemy police" makes me think you don't even really care about what is or is not blasphemy, and that you have no reverence for this topic. I never said his judgments were not holy, you realize my entire argument is that his judgments are holy, right? So that's really a confusing argument on your part, and makes me feel you are not reading very carefully.

No, what's confusing is your uncalled for charge of "blasphemy" early in the discussion. That's the best you can do? And to make matters worse, it was base on misrepresentations on your part. I reject your slight of hand tactics in order to favorably make your case.

Again, and lastly, STOP attributing Isa 45:7 with sin on God's part. Big mistake on your part!

God Bless.

No, I'm saying others are doing that, not me. I don't attribute that word evil in that context to meaning sin.

Good, because no else did either. What dizerner, you expect someone to allow you to make false charges against them? You haven't given me any suggestion you feel any differently. So, unless you back-down off the charge and be more careful discussing issues amongst believers, who are trying to ascertain the truth, and stop being the judge and jury, convicting fellow believers of false charges. Maybe we can move on.

God Bless.