Did Biblical writers recognize plants as living?

[Paidion]

There is no great theological import to this question. It is just that I have noticed that nowhere in the Bible, Old Testament or New, are plants referred to as living entities. Nor is it ever said that plants die.

Instead of saying that plants live, the Biblical writers say that plants grow.

Instead of saying that plants die, the Biblical writers say that plants wither. There are 33 references in the Bible to plants or parts of plants withering.

Do these facts indicate that it had never entered the mind of the Biblical writers that plants are alive? Is the concept of life and death in plants a relatively modern concept? Any thoughts?

[dizerner]

[user account removed]

[TheEditor]

They do seem to be anthropomorphized frequently, most notably:

"Take a lesson from the lilies of the field, how they are growing; they do not toil, nor do they spin; but I say to YOU that not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. If, now, God thus clothes the vegetation of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much rather clothe YOU, YOU with little faith?" (Matthew 6:28-30)

Regards, Brenden.

[Paidion]

But only animals are said to have souls.

Actually, neither animals or people are said to have "souls". They are said (in the OT) to be "souls".
In the OT, the word translated as "soul" actually means "being" (as a noun). Thus "...man became a living soul [being]." (Gen 2:7)
"And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living soul [being] after its kind...(Ge 1:24)"

It seems also that "souls" can be dead:

‘He who touches the dead soul of anyone shall be unclean seven days."(Num 19:11)

But if "nephesh" were translated as "being", instead of "soul", there would be no problem.
Of course, no translator renders the word as "soul" in Num 19:11. Most of them translate it as "body".

[dizerner]

[user account removed]

[TheEditor]

I don't think Paidion was being as persnickety as you suggest (though he can be... ) I do think that there is a distinction between "being" something and "having" something. I "have" shoes--I am not shoes. I think the Greek and Pagan concepts of soul made their way into Judaism and later Christianity.

Regards, Brenden.

[jriccitelli]

Paidion does not believe we have a soul, rather we are souls. I do not believe that. I think Paidion would argue that when we die, our soul does not go to heaven but that it stays with, or is the body in the ground (and i would then argue that the body decomposes completely... etc).

I will argue that we are like plants, and that to dust we will return, 'like' plants and animals.
And like the created body, our created mortal soul/spirit will also be returned to dust, this is the second death. The second death is the death of the spirit that is not experienced until the lake of fire, or in other words extinguished, annihilated, and like the plants 'wither, and fade away'.

(which leads to another reason why i feel the phrase 'spiritual death' is inaccurate)

[dwilkins]

All of the above is reflected in debates that happened in about 350AD regarding Christology. The question at the time was whether Christ had a human soul or a divine soul. It's a result of trying to make Platonic philosophy fit the Biblical narrative. I don't think the two are compatible, though a lot of our theology was built on forging them together. This brings the whole question of cosmology to the forefront. I've mentioned in the past that the cosmology of the NT era was primarily Stoic. In the Old Testament it was ANE with a Hebrew flavor. In the patristic era it became Platonic. Which lens is the right one? Did God simply condescend in a given generation to approximate true cosmology the best he could, so that we are arguing about a list of cosmologies though none of them are truly correct?

Doug

[Singalphile]

Hello.

Did God simply condescend in a given generation to approximate true cosmology the best he could, so that we are arguing about a list of cosmologies though none of them are truly correct?

Yeah, I've thought that. There seem to me to be vague hints in the OT and NT about what some of the writers may have thought about such things, but there's no actual teachings about them, as far as I know. I'm excited to find out how wrong I am about all of that!

I laughed when I read the original question, but it is interesting. From googling the topic, it appears that there's some actual debate about it in relation to whether or not anything died before A&E disobeyed God, because if plants are alive then ... blah, blah, blah.

[Paidion]

Doug, what is ANE?