soul and spirit.

[Paidion]

Like Rick, I believe in the holistic view of man --- that what we call "body", and "soul" are but different aspects of a person. In the OT, the word translated as "soul" seemed to mean "being" (and in the NT, it seems to mean "self"). So there was the "being" of man and the "being" of beast. In one place, the Hebrews were commanded not to defile themselves by touching a "dead nephesh". How could a "soul" be dead, if the word referred to ethereal part of man which exists independently of the body? According to much of the teaching within Christendom, isn't that "soul" supposed to be immortal? A ghost, that is "a spirit" (German: "geist") is supposedly the independent part of a person which lives on after death.

If the traditional concept of "soul" or "spirit" is true, then how can striking the physical head of a man with a physical object render that man's soul unconscious? Conversely, how can being troubled in the soul, cause stomach ulcers? Their seems to be a most strong correlation between a person's body and a person's "soul", so strong in fact, that the two seem inseparable.

When a person grows old, does their soul age, too? Why do the minds or souls of some elderly people dysfunction? Why is there memory loss (I have it) or why do some have Alzheimers disease where they do not even recognize their spouse? Has there been a huge change in their soul? Will their soul be magically restored after death? And if so, corresponding to what age of the body?

What about a child's "soul"? Are the souls of children immature? If not, why do children behave and think immaturely? Why do they not give great orations as the gnostics claimed Jesus gave when He was 6 months old?

[narrowjon]

Hi glow,

The soul and spirit was defined in same meanings. In the Holy Bible, there is no verses that differences both of the words you had been questioning about. The soul and spirit is known without bones, but according to the bible it has senses that could also feel, see, hear and smell each and everyone of us.

Hope that helped you.


hundred island

[Paidion]

The soul and spirit was defined in same meanings. In the Holy Bible, there is no verses that differences both of the words you had been questioning about. The soul and spirit is known without bones, but according to the bible it has senses that could also feel, see, hear and smell each and everyone of us.

Where do you find that in the Bible?

The parable of "The Rich Man and Lazarus" is the only passage of which I am aware that can be so construed. But that parable is based on a common belief among the Jews of that day. Our Lord's use of that parable in not to picture what happens after death, but to illustrate that even if it were possible for a person to return from the dead and warn the Jews of that day, they would not believe.

Surely, we don't suppose the criterion for determining whether we go to a place of comfort or torment after death, is whether we are poor like Lazarus, or rich like Dives.

[glow]

Wow,

Thank you for all this information.I can see even among you there are alot of different views. Its alot to ponder and I am. I have heard many different viewpoints over the years and just started to wonder if there was a more simple answer . As I said Wow, its "still" not simple to me!

I do not know alot of the different words the bible uses as far as orig. greek text vs other languages etc. and I know when it gets down to deciphering some things that seems to sway it one way vs another.As Steve was explaining his position as of now.
I have had people ask me this question, esp. in terms of animals vs man.Some folks tell me animals do live beyond their flesh(have a continual soul) because of the animals that are spoken of in revelations in our future home(though to me those seem to be symbolic of divine creatures and I do not see how that shows that).

So if God breathed life into man and made him of the earth and the animals also(per the greek word, Steve said was applied), I suppose you could think the soul/spirit was the same: animals and man. But in the new testament when folks are "born again" of the spirit, I don't see how that can relate to the same soul/spirit as in Genesis.Animals do not go through a process of being born again do they? I don't see how as far as making a verbal/heart choice, but than maybe they were already created with that knowledge of God and dont/didnt loose it's purity, like man did?

I have to admit sappy as it is to say, when I hear the birds sings right before the break of dawn they make me think they are praising God for the day! I also wonder since Eve was made of Adams flesh (not the earth), did God breathe life into her also or was she "started up" differently???

Yikes, I still have alot of questions! Thank you so much for all your knowledge .

[glow]

would anyone care to respond to what I just said?

Thanks, I am here to learn

[Perry]

would anyone care to respond to what I just said?

Hi Glow,
I will respond... please take everything I say as worth precisely what you paid for it

I don't believe animals are the same kind of beings that humans are. I believe that both animals and humans are physical, and therefore subject to many of the same kind of physical problems. I guess I would say that "mechanically" we are much like the higher-order animals. But humans are created in the image of God, and I'm certain part of that image has to do with our capacity to reason and make moral choices. I don't believe animals possess the capacity to reason or to make moral choices.

Currently I own a beloved pet dog, (Anne) and she knows my voice and we (my wife and I) have trained her to fetch, sit, lay,stay, heal, etc. So she has a limited capacity to learn. She shows a great deal of affection for us, and I think she loves us in her way. But interestingly, the Bible has very little good to say about dogs. (A cultural thing I think.) In any case, I don't see any Biblical evidence for supposing that I shall ever see Anne beyond this life, even though my own sappy sentimentality might wish it to be otherwise.

If I turn out to be wrong about that, I won't be disappointed.

[Perry]

P.S.

I'm not sure exactly what label I would put on that special "spark" that separates we humans from the animals, other than to repeat that we are created in God's image, and that they are not. I understand that there is a need to be precise with our terminology sometimes, but I also think it can be easy to slip into quibbling over semantics.

[glow]

thanks Perry, for your remark.

I also do not think animals and man are the same. Though I still think the animals and nature (trees etc) of the world are tied to God.You can see that in God creating them in the first place.
Scripture that refers to the birds being taken care of by him, ants used as an example of good work vs a sluggard, the lillies of the field etc. He still uses them as lessons for us too.


Really beautiful world, to bad it is suffering under the fall also..I am glad he made all these things for us to enjoy on his planet, just hope we learn to take better care of it. :/