What are your thoughts concerning universalism?

[darinhouston]

So Hitler, when confronted by Christ on Judgement day, falls to his knees in terror, repents, and winds up immediately in the same condition as Polycarp! Nowhere do we read in scripture that this isn't so - saved not by faith but by sight, and a horrible, fearful sight at that.

I guess the point is that a pleading response out of terror alone isn't salvific in this life or the next. Plenty of people respond out of fear for hell today. They may not be any more saved now than someone responding similarly after. The key is whether it's repentance only based on fear of consequences or a bending of the knee in trust and surrender to Jesus as Lord. That's true now, no reason to think anything less would be required then, and as the Calvinists say, someone unwilling to do it now even with knowledge of hell would no doubt be equally unwilling to do so then in the face of it. If only to seek rescue, that's not true repentance and turning toward Jesus. A hardened heart could well stay hardened.

But, if someone truly is ignorant, then faced with a knowledge for the first time of who Jesus is and the consequences of not following him, it seems like God's grace would be just as effective for such a moment - even if they're Hitler. God may well not extend that grace to someone who was informed but rejected him in this life, but he may well in the afterlife. We don't know much about how he would treat the truly ignorant or incapable other than what we know about his character.

[Darrell]

If it is our FATHER's good pleasure to eventually reconcile all mankind to Him, what a wonderful thing that would be.


With that being said: to me it seems that universalism is the polar opposite of calvinism. Instead of only a few being elect, everyone is elect. It is hyper-osas in the sense that everyone was/is always saved because [ultimately] no one was/is ever truly lost.

[Ultimately] universalism makes faith, death and judgement mere formalities. It makes a life of faith and following Christ unnecessary because in the end everyone gets to "go to heaven" (it just may take a little more time for some of us to get there)..not by faith but by torture - experiencing God's wrath and punishment. How is this different from purgatory?

Pro 1:26-29 KJV
26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

[Paidion]

It makes a life of faith and following Christ unnecessary because in the end everyone gets to "go to heaven" (it just may take a little more time for some of us to get there)

A "little" more time. Maybe a million years. Is it worth it to live for ourselves during this life rather that submitting to the Lord?

[Homer]

Hi Paidion,

A "little" more time. Maybe a million years.

Why would you think this? Is there anyone that stupid or stubborn?

Is it worth it to live for ourselves during this life rather that submitting to the Lord?

It seems the majority of folks, due to unbelief, would say selfishness is the way to go.

[Darrell]

Greetings Paidion,

"Paidion: A "little" more time. Maybe a million years. Is it worth it to live for ourselves during this life rather that submitting to the Lord?"

It really isn't a question of "worth" but of necessity. Is living by faith and following Christ while here on earth necessary according to the doctrine of universalism? No it is not.

Regarding "maybe a million years", to quote Homer " Highly implausible."

[steve7150]

Hebrews 9:27-28
New American Standard Bible 1995
27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

Is there a scripture somewhere that informs us of after death repentance and salvation?




It is possible that Hitler & Stalin were completely deceived by Satan and their minds were blinded. It is possible they will receive many lashes but not for all eternity.
I think Rev 22.17 comes very close to validating post mortem salvation. A Preterist would disagree but i'm not a Preterist.
Lastly "once to die and then the judgement" again brings us to what exactly does "judgment" entail?

[Darrell]

"Lastly "once to die and then the judgement" again brings us to what exactly does "judgment" entail?"

Jude 1:14-15 KJV
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

2Co 5:10 KJV
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

The Judgment scene recorded in Mat 25:31 - 46 ends with
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The words everlasting and eternal are the same greek word "αἰώνιον". The distinction was made by the translators not the Lord. So according to Jesus "life eternal" is just as long as "everlasting punishment".

[Paidion]

But does "αιωνιος" mean "eternal"? This adjective is derived from its nominal form "αιων" which means "age".
Therefore the adjective "αιωνιος" means "age-long".

[Darrell]

Greetings Paidion,

"Paidion: But does "αιωνιος" mean "eternal"? This adjective is derived from its nominal form "αιων" which means "age".
Therefore the adjective "αιωνιος" means "age-long".


Agreed. The point I was trying to make is
based on The Lord's choice of words the duration of the life promised to the righteous is equal to the duration of punishment promised to the wicked.

Thank you for bearing with me, I often struggle to make my point clear.

Live Blest - d

[Paidion]

You are doing pretty well, Darin, in making yourself understood.

I would like to point out that the Greek word for "eternal" is also found in the New Testament.
That word is "αιδιος" (aidios). It is used in reference to God Himself:

Roman 1:20 (RSV) Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse;