"The Time is at Hand"

End Times
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Paidion
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Re: "The Time is at Hand"

Post by Paidion » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:48 pm

(Matthew 24:34 ESV) Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

How one understands Matthew's words depends a lot on how one understands the word "generation." I think we can be misled if we insist that "generation" means "an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation), a space of 30-33 years." That is only ONE way in which the word is used in the New Testament. Indeed, the Online Greek Lexicon, a part of "The Online Bible" which is actually a Bible program, gives 4 distinct meanings of the word:
1074 γενεα genea ghen-eh-ah’

AV-generation 37, time 2, age 2, nation 1; 42

1) fathered, birth, nativity
2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
2b) metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
2b1) esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation
3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time
4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation), a space of 30-33 years
Please notice definition 2. People of the same stock, could refer to a nation, in this case the nation of Israel, the descendants of Jacob.
Notice according to the above, the King James translates the word once as "nation" (Philippians 2:15)

It seems peculiar that the blood of all God's prophets from the beginning would be charged to the people of that generation in the sense of a period of 30 years or so. It seems to make better sense that it would be charged to all Israelites of all times who rejected God and/or His Messiah.

(Luke 11:49-51 ESV) Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,’ so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation.

I suggest that "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place" refers to the people of Israel. There have been many attempts to exterminate them throughout the centuries, but none have succeeded. This understanding does not force Christ's predictions to refer to the events surrounding 70 A.D.
Paidion

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TheEditor
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Re: "The Time is at Hand"

Post by TheEditor » Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:36 pm

I guess I should have known better than to use "preterist" in my original question since this always seems to create a discussion on the merits of preterism and diverts from my specific question. However I don't think that it's a satisfying enough answer for me at least to say that because the author of the Revelation was apparently an Apostle that somehow all Christians who were skeptical of Revelation were immediately culpable for questioning the inspired utterance when clearly the words of the utterance said the very things that Jesus said to watch out for, namely, "the time is at hand."

As far as CS Lewis is concerned, Robby, you must have a pretty low threshold for what you consider "blasphemy." Lewis actually used this particular example as a way to trust the eyewitness testimony because in his opinion the eyewitnesses could have removed such an embarrassing testimony but they didn't. He wasn't using this example in a blasphemous way, but actualy was using it as a good form apologetics, something that one would know if they read the quote in it's context.

Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]

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robbyyoung
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"The Time is at Hand"

Post by robbyyoung » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:19 am

dizerner wrote:
'This generation shall not pass till all these things be done.'
It's so obvious the Lord meant the generation he was talking about in his dialogue, not the current one.
Hi dizerner,

Your conclusions are divorced from the entire context of the relevant audience. Here's another unambigous reference:

Yeshua said this to the High Priest and council - "and all of you WILL SEE the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven." (Mark 14:62 HCSB)

Conflate that with this - Rev 1:7, Mark 13:26, and Matt 24:30! Therefore,
"Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."
remains tenable to the view I hold.

Your "obvious generation", other than "the current one" is indeed untenable by the witness of scripture, no speculations or opinions are necessary! You and Paidion are in the minority against the witness of scripture. At least those who hold to a possible "double fulfillment" isn't denying THE CLEAR AND OBVIOUS generation in view.

Now prove your case against Mark 14:62 ;)

Brenden wanted to know if that generation had reason to believe proclaimations regarding "the time is near", YES, they had good reason to believe it from The Apostles, for they received it from the preaching and teaching of Yeshua Himself. The context always denotes their lifetime, their expectation and deliverance regarding events.

God Bless.
Last edited by robbyyoung on Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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robbyyoung
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Re: "The Time is at Hand"

Post by robbyyoung » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:29 am

TheEditor wrote:As far as CS Lewis is concerned, Robby, you must have a pretty low threshold for what you consider "blasphemy." Lewis actually used this particular example as a way to trust the eyewitness testimony because in his opinion the eyewitnesses could have removed such an embarrassing testimony but they didn't. He wasn't using this example in a blasphemous way, but actualy was using it as a good form apologetics, something that one would know if they read the quote in it's context.

Regards, Brenden.
[/size]
Hi Brenden,

I'll back-off of C.S. Lewis. His remarks would have sufficed without my opinion.

God Bless.

3Resurrections
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Re: "The Time is at Hand"

Post by 3Resurrections » Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:15 am

An old post, but I don't see that any of the responses have ever yet included GOD'S definition of how an "AT HAND" prophecy was to be interpreted. That definition provided by God for what "AT HAND" means prophetically is found all the way back in Ezekiel 12:21-28. A somewhat lengthy passage, but all of it needed for clarity.

(v.21) "And the word of the LOR came unto me, saying,

(v.22) Son of man, what is that proverb that ye have in the land of Israel, saying, The days are prolonged, and every vision faileth?

(v.23) Tell them therefore, Thus saith the Lord God; I will make this proverb to cease, and they shall no more use it as a proverb in Israel; but say unto them, THE DAYS ARE *AT HAND*, and the effect of every vision.

(v.24) For there shall be no more vain vision nor flattering divination within the house of Israel.

(v.25) For I am the LORD: I will SPEAK, and the word that I shall speak SHALL COME TO PASS; it shall be NO MORE PROLONGED: for *IN YOUR DAYS*, O rebellious house, will I SAY the word, and WILL PERFORM IT, saith the Lord GOD.

(v.26) Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

(v.27) Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, the vision that he seeth is FOR MANY DAYS TO COME, and he prophesieth of THE TIMES THAT ARE *FAR OFF*.

(v.28) Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; There shall NONE OF MY WORDS BE PROLONGED anymore, but the word which I have spoken SHALL BE DONE, saith the Lord GOD."


Okay, the upshot of all God's discourse with the prophet Ezekiel was to pin down exactly when His prophecies would be fulfilled. Contrary to the assumption of the nation of Israel at that time, these prophecies would NOT BE PROLONGED into TIMES THAT WERE FAR OFF. God intended to fulfill His judgments "IN YOUR DAYS", to the very ones Ezekiel was addressing at that time. The prophesies that were "AT HAND" would not only be spoken to them directly, but they would also be "performed" and fulfilled in the very near future in THEIR days.

If we take God at his word, then every time we see the words "AT HAND" applied to something prophetic in scripture, we are to understand that those prophesies are NOT PROLONGED into TIMES THAT ARE FAR OFF. In other words, the "AT HAND" time brackets found in Revelation's introduction (Rev. 1:3) and at its conclusion (Rev. 22:10) include everything between those two brackets that would happen in the near future for John's readers. The only self-exception to this near-fulfillment that Revelation mentions is found in Revelation 10:4, which prophesies were NOT WRITTEN DOWN, but were SEALED UP for later generations after AD 70. If that makes anyone too uncomfortable to include in that near-fulfillment the Great White Throne Judgment, the Lake of Fire, the destruction of the Land Beast and the Scarlet Beast, the casting of Satan and his devils into the Lake of Fire, the bodily resurrection of the dead, etc., then they will have to take God's dictionary for this "AT HAND" term and rip out that page.

Somehow, someway, every unsealed, written prophecy between those two Revelation "AT HAND" time brackets in verses 1:3 and 22:10 would not be "prolonged" into "times that are far off", but would have to be fulfilled in JOHN'S DAYS - the period in which he was writing Revelation. We MUST start our exegesis of Revelation with that definition of "AT HAND" correctly understood to begin with, or our entire interpretation goes off into left field. That is why it is so very critical to date the book of Revelation correctly. Which can certainly be done to the very year using internal evidence. But that is the subject for a different post.

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