A while back the question of whether or not the Great Commission came up. The following is a partial preterist position on the topic from Andrew Perriman. His basic point is that if the Great Commission was to make Disciples that would spread the word of the judgment about to come, there is no particular reason for that specific commission to be ongoing today.
http://www.postost.net/2014/10/why-did- ... ll-nations
Doug
The Goal of the Great Commission
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dizerner
Re: The Goal of the Great Commission
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Last edited by dizerner on Sun Feb 19, 2023 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Goal of the Great Commission
I can't imagine why anyone would think that "make disciples of all nations" would be interpreted as "make witnesses to the coming judgment." Jesus said that a disciple is someone who "continue[s] in [His] word" (John 8:31), which speaks of the disciples' behavior, not their message. Even in the great commission, he said, "teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you"—in other words, obedience to commands, not preaching, is what characterizes disciples.
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robbyyoung
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Re: The Goal of the Great Commission
Hi Steve,steve wrote:I can't imagine why anyone would think that "make disciples of all nations" would be interpreted as "make witnesses to the coming judgment." Jesus said that a disciple is someone who "continue[s] in [His] word" (John 8:31), which speaks of the disciples' behavior, not their message. Even in the great commission, he said, "teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you"—in other words, obedience to commands, not preaching, is what characterizes disciples.
The command to The Disciples were to Preach and Teach The Gospel, therefore producing Disciples for an AGE ENDING EVENT and obviously beyond (see Mark 16:15-16 & Matt 28:19-20).
With that said, no one is saying Discipleship stops. Rather, continues minus the age ending urgency, shifting to the New Covenant reality.
God Bless.
Re: The Goal of the Great Commission
The command to The Disciples were to Preach and Teach The Gospel, therefore producing Disciples for an AGE ENDING EVENT and obviously beyond (see Mark 16:15-16 & Matt 28:19-20).
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations" Matt 28.19
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations" Matt 28.19
Re: The Goal of the Great Commission
Perriman is a very smart guy. But sometimes he drops the ball very badly (i.e., he is convinced that Babylon in Revelation refers to Rome).
At AD 70, "the kingdom and dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven [was] given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom and all dominions shall sever and obey him." Dan. 7:27 I dare say that part of this kingdom authority is telling people about the good news of Jesus and his kingdom. That sounds like making disciples of all nations to me.
At AD 70, "the kingdom and dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven [was] given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom and all dominions shall sever and obey him." Dan. 7:27 I dare say that part of this kingdom authority is telling people about the good news of Jesus and his kingdom. That sounds like making disciples of all nations to me.
Re: The Goal of the Great Commission
One of the reasons I posted this article was that I think it does a good job of describing analysis of scripture through the lens of teleology. Without some feel for the point of doing something, or what we expect the end game of a given action is supposed to be, we are in a tough spot trying to analyze descriptions of that action. So, the teleology of the Great Commission per Perriman is to get the word out in preparation for the judgment that was "about to come."
But, the futurists have their own teleology. For them, Great Commission has to be fulfilled in order to allow for the Second Coming. That Commission is to evangelize everyone on the planet. It's only after that point that the end can come. I don't think this is very logical on a number of levels. First, about 150,000 people are dying and being born every day. If we assume that a matching number reach the age of accountability (or whatever description you want to use for the time when someone is liable for rejecting the gospel) then over 100 people a minute reach this milestone. Assuming that the issue in the Commission is that it has to be fair that everyone's heard before the end, that means that each and every one of those 100 has to be evangelized just in time, with less than a second left as a window for the Second Coming. If you were to back it out and say that most people have to be evangelized, or that all races or nations or counties have to be evangelized, there are critical teleological implications to go along with that as well. So, one question I'd ask futurists is how do you define the successful completion of the Great Commission?
A second type of crisis is created by requiring the delay of the Second Coming until this evangelism happens. What to futurists do with the idea of imminence if this is the case? If nothing can happen until the Great Commission is finished, then how is either the rapture or the Second Coming prepared to happen any moment? If the Great Commission won't be fulfilled until the end of the age at the end of the Tribulation, why is it even an important topic of conversation for pre-Trib rapture followers?
And again, what is the point of the Great Commission? Is it to make sure that everyone has fairly heard the gospel? The church spread as far as Japan, the tip of India, Ireland, and the Russian steppes by 400AD. What if, in the right moment of time, the Great Commission had been fulfilled? Did the Second Coming have to happen at that instant? Can it then be fulfilled more than once? If it was fulfilled in the past, but the Second Coming didn't have to happen at that instant, why does that create a crisis in the modern church?
Doug
But, the futurists have their own teleology. For them, Great Commission has to be fulfilled in order to allow for the Second Coming. That Commission is to evangelize everyone on the planet. It's only after that point that the end can come. I don't think this is very logical on a number of levels. First, about 150,000 people are dying and being born every day. If we assume that a matching number reach the age of accountability (or whatever description you want to use for the time when someone is liable for rejecting the gospel) then over 100 people a minute reach this milestone. Assuming that the issue in the Commission is that it has to be fair that everyone's heard before the end, that means that each and every one of those 100 has to be evangelized just in time, with less than a second left as a window for the Second Coming. If you were to back it out and say that most people have to be evangelized, or that all races or nations or counties have to be evangelized, there are critical teleological implications to go along with that as well. So, one question I'd ask futurists is how do you define the successful completion of the Great Commission?
A second type of crisis is created by requiring the delay of the Second Coming until this evangelism happens. What to futurists do with the idea of imminence if this is the case? If nothing can happen until the Great Commission is finished, then how is either the rapture or the Second Coming prepared to happen any moment? If the Great Commission won't be fulfilled until the end of the age at the end of the Tribulation, why is it even an important topic of conversation for pre-Trib rapture followers?
And again, what is the point of the Great Commission? Is it to make sure that everyone has fairly heard the gospel? The church spread as far as Japan, the tip of India, Ireland, and the Russian steppes by 400AD. What if, in the right moment of time, the Great Commission had been fulfilled? Did the Second Coming have to happen at that instant? Can it then be fulfilled more than once? If it was fulfilled in the past, but the Second Coming didn't have to happen at that instant, why does that create a crisis in the modern church?
Doug
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dizerner
Re: The Goal of the Great Commission
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Last edited by dizerner on Sun Feb 19, 2023 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Goal of the Great Commission
For them, Great Commission has to be fulfilled in order to allow for the Second Coming. That Commission is to evangelize everyone on the planet. It's only after that point that the end can come. I don't think this is very logical on a number of levels. . . .
As a former JW I can tell you that we were told that "give a witness" meant just that. There was only an emphasis made on making sure people "heard" some kind of "witness". But the timing of God's Judgment was fixed, irrespective. Which, by the way, I'm not sure I agree with anymore...the "time" that is. I am now wondering if it comes whenever He is good and ready, and that it isn't based on a "timetable" at all.
Regards, Brenden.
[color=#0000FF][b]"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery."[/b][/color]
Re: The Goal of the Great Commission
So, are you proposing that there might be an extended period after the end of the Great Commission where human history continues but no one is able to be saved?dizerner wrote:The end comes when it comes, not based or triggered by anything else but the Father's secret timetable.
The purpose of the Great Commission seems very obviously to me, biblically, to be to bring in the greatest number of converts possible until there is no more possibility of making converts.
Doug