Why is UR harmful?
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:11 am
This is not a hostile argument. This is an answer, but the biblical context makes the biblical answer 'also' a warning.
It is a response to the honest and oft asked question as to why make a big deal out of UR? (i.e. below)
But to build a whole doctrine around second chances (then affirm and advise) at the expense of, and grave danger of, removing all thought and fear from the bible that (sure seems to) teach otherwise. UR redefines what most every Christian has believed about OT and NT teachings on the subject and made most every OT description of punishment and Gods intentions in doing so irrelevant in regards to eternal death. If this is true, then yes you can see why this teaching is harmful and destructive (in the literal sense).
The Bible is not only warning us of 'punishment' (UR) but of 'death' and being wiped out 'completely' (CI = destroying both the body and soul in Hell, or wherever, second death means just that: death). No human should take Gods warnings lightly. You have Gods wrath on one side and his offer of love and forgiveness on the other, it is a ‘choice’ people have been given in the cross.
It is worthwhile to ask: What was the message of the false prophets in the time of the Prophets?
And they put Jeremiah in a well, why did they do that?
It is a response to the honest and oft asked question as to why make a big deal out of UR? (i.e. below)
It is one thing to say there could be a second chance before the judgment to repent, understand and believe (for 'some', perhaps, maybe). This I can grant, because God is fair - not because the bible teaches it (nor does 'love' demand it).With all the dialogue going back and forth actually for several years on this topic i don't know why you see "universalism" as harmful. Why is it harmful?
But to build a whole doctrine around second chances (then affirm and advise) at the expense of, and grave danger of, removing all thought and fear from the bible that (sure seems to) teach otherwise. UR redefines what most every Christian has believed about OT and NT teachings on the subject and made most every OT description of punishment and Gods intentions in doing so irrelevant in regards to eternal death. If this is true, then yes you can see why this teaching is harmful and destructive (in the literal sense).
The Bible is not only warning us of 'punishment' (UR) but of 'death' and being wiped out 'completely' (CI = destroying both the body and soul in Hell, or wherever, second death means just that: death). No human should take Gods warnings lightly. You have Gods wrath on one side and his offer of love and forgiveness on the other, it is a ‘choice’ people have been given in the cross.
I did notice on the thread 7150 said:Many times, more than below, I have stated that ‘second chance’ is possible though, yet with considerations... And I explain to the person asking; that it would be like walking down the middle of the freeway blindfolded, you might make it sure, but it would be stupid, and from all we can observe not much of a chance, and we have been warned...
So I do hope to see my fathers face again, it is my number one hope and desire of heaven (I do not know everyone else’s aspirations). My father would have to repent, believe and accept. I accept that he could still reject God, and I could live with that. The point is that there would be no point in telling my father ‘you may have a second opportunity to repent in heaven’ If I made a statement like that, and my father put ‘hope’ in it, then I would not be able to live with it, because it may not be true, and now I was at fault also for going beyond what scripture teaches, having their blood on my hands. (Posted on pg.1 of ‘UR Evokes many emotions’, and ‘Logical fallacy’ thread)
You're right in having this fear, as teachers and Christians. It is part of the Gospel to believe and teach what Jesus commanded; “and this is not a new commandment, but an old commandment you have had from the beginning” (1John). We have many dire warnings to shepherds and teachers such as Ezekiel’s grave warning about not sounding the trumpet from the wall in announcing danger.I do believe about it if i'm asked, which is that postmortem repentance is possible if God chooses to give this opportunity. I would have to include "if" because though i think the weight of evidence is for postmortem repentance i can't say for certain nor do i want to. (7150)
It is worthwhile to ask: What was the message of the false prophets in the time of the Prophets?
And they put Jeremiah in a well, why did they do that?