Countdown to the Kingdom

[Allyn]

Countdown to the Kingdom

John the Baptist declares:
Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is near. (Matthew 3:2)

The Kingdom of God had not arrived for the first century people but they were being taught to prepare for it. Here are some examples of this time of preperation.
Matthew 4:17
From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."

Matthew 6:10
your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Matthew 10:7
As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.'

Matthew 19:12
For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

Matthew 23:13
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

Mark 9:1
And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."

Mark 9:47
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,

Luke 9:27
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."

Acts 14:22
strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. "We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God," they said.

The Kingdom of God does not arrive until after the resurrection of the dead. We know from Daniel 12 that those who participate in the resurrection of the dead are of Israel only. Therefore the resurrection happens then Christ comes with all His holy angels and separated the sheep from the goats. This is the action of the kingdom of God in which it is then known who is in the kingdom.

1 Cor. 15:
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

The resurrection of the dead, by necessity, must take place at the time the New Covenant has come in and when all enemies are made His footstool.

The Hebrew writer (Heb 10) compares this time as the time of the New Covenant by quoting from Jer. 31 by saying:
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

So we see that by showing the time of the New Covenant the writer is indicating that all enemies are made His footstool

The Apostle Paul preaches that when the last enemy, death, is defeated that this is at the time of the resurrection of the dead when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. (1 Cor 15:24)
He goes on to say that the last enemy is death. Therefore all enemies have been defeated including the last enemy, death. Not the enemy in the middle so then leaving more to be defeated but the last enemy leaving no more left to defeat.

Paul says in 1 Cor 15 that this is the time of the kingdom of God. The hebrew writer says that it is the time of the New Covenant. The apostle Paul says the resurrection is at the time when all rule and all authority and power have been put to an end including death.

Daniel is told that the resurrection of the dead is at the end of those days and Jesus said it was in those days that the Abomination that causes Desolation would happen. Kuke said in Luke 21 that they would know that it desolation was near when they saw armies surrounding Jerusalem. The armies surrounded Jerusalem from AD 67-AD 70.

Thus all prophecy concerning the Resurrection of the dead, All enemies being defeated and made His footstool, the New Covenant fully come in, The Second Coming of Christ, The Kingdom of God fully come in have all happened and found to be so by Scripture.

[steve]

Is there a question in here, or is this just an addition to some earlier discussion?

I can't agree with your thesis because you seem not to have done sufficient study on the varied uses of the term "Kingdom of God" in scripture.

[Mellontes]

Is there a question in here, or is this just an addition to some earlier discussion?

I can't agree with your thesis because you seem not to have done sufficient study on the varied uses of the term "Kingdom of God" in scripture.

Hi Steve,

Does there have to be a question? I think I have seen many other posts on your forum that do not ask questions. Why not just treat it as an expanded statement of faith in one particluar area?

I am sure that if anyone disagrees, and would like to offer correction, they will do so with Scriptural support. After all, is that not what we are called to do as Christians?

Galatians 6:1 - Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

[look2jesus]

Hello Allyn,

The Kingdom of God had not arrived for the first century people but they were being taught to prepare for it. (emphasis mine)

You haven’t established this assertion at all. Even one of the verses you quoted in support of your statement contradicts it, e.g., Matthew 23:13. How could Jesus chastise the Pharisees for not entering the kingdom of heaven and for barring others who were trying to enter if “The Kingdom of God had not arrived for the first century people…” as you stated. Also, Mt. 12:28 contradicts your statement.
“But if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.” NKJV (emphasis added)

The Kingdom of God does not arrive until after the resurrection of the dead.

Where did you establish this fact?

We know from Daniel 12 that those who participate in the resurrection of the dead are of Israel only.

You should have stated that “according to my interpretation of Daniel 12” etc., because it seems obvious to me that your understanding of that passage is not the only valid interpretation possible and I feel that you are importing a meaning into the text that isn’t necessarily there.

Therefore the resurrection happens[,] then Christ comes with all His holy angels and separate[s] the sheep from the goats.

This statement I agree with, with a slight change in order. Christ comes; the resurrection happens; Jesus separates the sheep from the goats.

This is the action of the kingdom of God in which it is then known who is in the kingdom.

I can’t say I really understand this statement.

The resurrection of the dead, by necessity, must take place at the time the New Covenant has come in and when all enemies are made His footstool.

I fail to see how you can assert this based on the 1 Cor. 15 text. Where does Paul tie the coming in of the New Covenant with the resurrection, exactly?

The Hebrew writer (Heb 10) compares this time as the time of the New Covenant...(emphasis mine)

What is meant by “this time”?

So we see that by showing the time of the New Covenant the writer is indicating that all enemies are made His footstool.

Where, exactly, in Hebrews 10 does the writer indicate this?

The Apostle Paul preaches that when the last enemy, death, is defeated that this is at the time of the resurrection of the dead when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. (1 Cor 15:24)

I agree with this statement.

He goes on to say that the last enemy is death. Therefore all enemies have been defeated including the last enemy, death. Not the enemy in the middle so then leaving more to be defeated but the last enemy leaving no more left to defeat.

You seem to be indicating here that the resurrection has already happened, but nothing in your post has come near to establishing that fact.

Paul says in 1 Cor 15 that this is the time of the kingdom of God.

What Paul does say is that at the resurrection, Christ will deliver the kingdom to God the Father. He says nothing about that being the time of the kingdom of God.

The [H]ebrew writer says that it is the time of the New Covenant. (emphasis mine)

I’m not sure what you mean by “it” here.

The apostle Paul says the resurrection is at the time when all rule and all authority and power have been put to an end including death.

I agree with this statement.

Daniel is told that the resurrection of the dead is at the end of those days...

Not necessarily. What Daniel is told is that at that time, his people will be delivered, every one who is found written in the book. It is after this statement about those found written in the book that Daniel is told that “many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament, and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever. ” I think it is very possible that the angel, having just made reference to a time when a book will be searched for names written in it, gives Daniel a glimpse of ‘the very end’ as he does at verse 13, where he tells Daniel, “But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.” This corresponds well with Mt. 13:37-43,
“He answered and said to them: ‘He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!’” NKJV (emphasis mine)

Jesus said it was in those days that the Abomination that causes Desolation would happen. [L]uke said in Luke 21 that they would know that it desolation was near when they saw armies surrounding Jerusalem. The armies surrounded Jerusalem from AD 67-AD 70.

I agree that AD 70 was the abomination the caused desolation but I disagree with your assertion that those days included the resurrection. Jesus didn’t say that, and your only basis for saying that is your particular interpretation of Daniel 12.

Thus all prophecy concerning the Resurrection of the dead, All enemies being defeated and made His footstool, the New Covenant fully come in, The Second Coming of Christ, The Kingdom of God fully come in have all happened and found to be so by Scripture.

Allyn, perhaps you might be able to prove from Scripture what you have asserted here in this statement, but you have fallen far short, imo, in your use of the scriptures in this post to do that. But God bless you anyway, brother.

l2j

[Allyn]

Hello L2J,

Many questions and comments from you and maybe I will have time to get in to all of them but for brevity I will take on Daniel 12 in this post and the resuurction of the dead as it relates to 1 Cor. 15 in another post. Maybe I was assuming too much by not explaining in detail in the original post what I think all Christians who know their Bible should already know. But I'll do it now

Lets start where Jesus is first presenting His answer to the disciples concerning what would be the sign of His coming and the end of the age. Jesus then answers these 2 questions by referring to Daniel the prophet that it will be the time of the Abomination of Desolation that Daniel spoke of. Within chapter 12 we see all the vital elements to put together just what Jesus was teaching on to His 4 disciples with Him at that time of the Olivet Discourse.

Daniel 12 isn't very long so lets have it here for reference. I will bold the words that I will deal with in my explanation.

1 “ At that timeMichael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
5 Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?”
7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.
8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, “My lord, what shall be the end of these things?”
9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.
13 “But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.”

So then what we have for the purpose of this discussion are the elements, as I have said, that compose the answer to the question as to what these things are, when these things shall be, and what the sign of the end of the age is.
We have:
1. At that time
2. there shall be a time of trouble
3.(again) at that time (but only for Daniel's people)
4. (only) everyone (of Daniel's people) who is found in the book
5. Some (of those everyone) to everlasting life
6. Some (of those everyone) to shame and everlasting contempt
7. (the duration) that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered
8.What shall be the end of these things (the last of all these events)
9. from the time the daily sacrifices removed to the abomination of desolation
10. Daniel will die and rest
11. Daniel will be raised

So this is all in reference to the questions Jesus was asked. His answer was to refer back to Daniel on the whats and hows and whens of their questions. Jesus was teaching about a time that would be in the one same generation. History shows that only one generation saw those stones not remaining upon another.
So then what is the whole teaching of Jesus concerning those days and according to the Prophet Daniel?

At that time(1) concerning what Jesus was teaching would happen there would be a time of trouble(2). Jesus called it the time of the Abomination of Desolation. And at that time Daniel's people shall be delivered(3). This deliverence is the resurrection of the dead because this is what the angel is speaking of. It includes only Daniels people who is found written in the book(4). Of all the people who have died only many]of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, This is monumental in true understanding because the angel is not saying to Daniel that all people who have died will be raised in the resurrection but rather the angel qualified his words to Daniel by saying only that many of those who sleep in the dust will be raised. Do you see that? Many of all who sleep in the dust will be raised but only Daniel's people will be raised. This is very important because this is a prophecy of what will take place for Daniel's people (Israel). Then we see the many are narrowed down even further and separated out. Some(5) to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt(6). So there we have the event of the resurrection of the dead. Those who participate in that resurrection is Israle only and we know this because the angel was speaking of only Daniel's people.

Now lets look at how long it will take between one event to the next. That it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered(7) History shows that from the time of the surrounding of the City of Jerusalem by the Roman armies until the Temple was destroyed three and one half years took place. Daniel wanted to know what shall be the end of these things(8) that he was being shown. The angel makes it clear from the time the daily sacrifices removed to the abomination of desolation(9) that there is a time frame of specific days and a blessing for those who wait through that time. This is a time for those alive who were victims and observers. But Daniel is told to continue on with his life for he was told that he shall rest(10) and that at the end of the days Daniel and all of Israel will arise to their inheritance. This resurrection was the hope of Israel. It was what they had been taught by the prophets would be theirs as a promise from God. Daniel was given the specifics about this promise and Jesus makes a direct reference to it as being the time of the Abomination of Desolation - a time of trouble like none other for Israel.

God bless, brother

[Allyn]

Is there a question in here, or is this just an addition to some earlier discussion?

The post should indicate that it is not a question

I can't agree with your thesis because you seem not to have done sufficient study on the varied uses of the term "Kingdom of God" in scripture.

I am well aware of the varied uses of the term "kingdom of God". I am also very aware that it was shown by Jesus that it was something to be prayed for by His hearers to come in. This alone indicates that it had not fully come in. wouldn't you say so, Steve? Also we have the few examples that it was something to work towards having. For example if it was already fully in place why would Jesus tell His hearers that If one part of the body was an offense then that part should be removed or plucked out? It would be better to enter the kingdom with those missing body parts rather then send the whole body to hell. In other words the kingdom of God/heaven was underway and worthy of achieving but not yet fully in. This did not happen until Jesus came a second time and then handed the kingdom over to the Father.
The beatitudes are about this same thing. These were illustration of what people of the various states in life would soon be experiencing and still all of this was before Jesus taught His disciples how to pray which included praying for the kingdom to come.

The example of the foolish and wise virgins is also a teaching of the coming kingdom. Some were prepared for it and others had to make a mad dash for what they should have had plenty of. It was the time of the coming of Christ and the fullness of the kingdom plan.

The days of the 1st century church were days of preperation for the kingdom of God and steadfastness. All believers were citizens of that kingdom and all who God had given to Jesus were called by the Father but the kingdom was still being strived for at that time.

[look2jesus]

Allyn,
Thanks for your reply. It's becoming a lot clearer to me where you're coming from. I do have to study more of Daniel and we'll see how it all turns out. Thanks again.

l2j

[Allyn]

Allyn,
Thanks for your reply. It's becoming a lot clearer to me where you're coming from. I do have to study more of Daniel and we'll see how it all turns out. Thanks again.

l2j

You're welcome.
I look forward to a fruitful discussion.

I will try and get to some of your other questions this weekend. Especially the resurrection comment you made concerning 1 Cor. 15.

see ya

[smcllr3]

Hey Allyn,

A lot of the connections you are trying to make seem to be leaps that I'm not sure you have established as being necessary leaps. What I mean is that you are not telling how you are arriving at each conclusion, you are just telling that you are arriving there. Some of the passages (i.e. Heb 10) do not say anything about what you are talking about. That is just an observation. I come to theos.org every now and then and poke around the different posts to see what is new or different. I like a good logical progression where each step necessitates the next step, but I don't find that in your explanation of your view. I'm not saying that the connections are not there; I'm just saying you don't seem to explain why you see them there as if we are supposed to take your word for it.

Thus all prophecy concerning the Resurrection of the dead, All enemies being defeated and made His footstool, the New Covenant fully come in, The Second Coming of Christ, The Kingdom of God fully come in have all happened and found to be so by Scripture.

Resurrection of the dead

John 5: 28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Paul seems to assume that this is still future in Romans 2:6-16.

All enemies being defeated and made His footstool

The fact that people disobey and that people still die makes that difficult to swallow.

But also, in Rev 20 John lays out a scheme which ends with death being destroyed, which you have already said that Paul says it is the last enemy to be destroyed. There are two events -among others- that are recorded as happening first; Satan being bound, and a long period of time passes (symbolized by the number 1,000). No matter where you place Satan's being bound and the millennium, Death being destroyed should be much later than Christ's first coming and since then there has not been to my knowledge a change in the effectiveness of death. It remains the same as from the beginning. Seeing that you are probably also aware of that fact, I would have thought that you would have explained that part better. That makes it also hard to swallow.

The Second Coming of Christ

The events of the "Second coming" are described as being, the dead and living Christians rising into the air, fire coming out of heaven taking vengeance on God's enemies, and the earth melting. These are said to come after events such as a "man of sin" that will set himself up in the Church of God proclaiming himself to be God whom Christ will destroy as well, and then we shall always be with the Lord. Though I believe that the "man of sin" has already been revealed, none of the events described have happened since that time. That makes it difficult to agree with you.




As Far as the New Covenant and the Kingdom of God, I believe that they are in effect as well, but it seems we believe that for entirely different reasons.

The New covenant was in effect when Christ shed his blood and it was sealed or shown to be authentic by the Holy Spirit at least at Pentecost which is in Acts 2

The Kingdom was realized once there was a king described somewhat in Acts 2. All authority was given to Jesus at his resurrection according to Acts 2 and Matthew 28:18.

Maybe you can explain why that is incorrect thinking.

[Allyn]

Hey Allyn,


Maybe you can explain why that is incorrect thinking.

Hi,
I'm not making any judgments on other views. I am simply explaining what I see. I will, I promise, get to the Heb. 10 solution and the 1 Cor. 15 connection.

The OP was a door opener for comments and further discussion. It seems to be working.

John 5: 28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Paul seems to assume that this is still future in Romans 2:6-16.

Yes and so would I if I lived in the AD 50s and 60s and the event wouldn't happen until about AD70. BTW, what event do you believe Paul is speaking of in Romans 2? Kingdom come or resurrection and judgment?

The fact that people disobey and that people still die makes that difficult to swallow.

But also, in Rev 20 John lays out a scheme which ends with death being destroyed, which you have already said that Paul says it is the last enemy to be destroyed. There are two events -among others- that are recorded as happening first; Satan being bound, and a long period of time passes (symbolized by the number 1,000). No matter where you place Satan's being bound and the millennium, Death being destroyed should be much later than Christ's first coming and since then there has not been to my knowledge a change in the effectiveness of death. It remains the same as from the beginning. Seeing that you are probably also aware of that fact, I would have thought that you would have explained that part better. That makes it also hard to swallow.

I partially agree. I agree that the it must take place at the second coming and this is explained through the use of Hebrews 10 which I will get to later.

The events of the "Second coming" are described as being, the dead and living Christians rising into the air, fire coming out of heaven taking vengeance on God's enemies, and the earth melting. These are said to come after events such as a "man of sin" that will set himself up in the Church of God proclaiming himself to be God whom Christ will destroy as well, and then we shall always be with the Lord. Though I believe that the "man of sin" has already been revealed, none of the events described have happened since that time. That makes it difficult to agree with you.

This must be tested against Scripture and not with what we think we should be able to see.

As Far as the New Covenant and the Kingdom of God, I believe that they are in effect as well, but it seems we believe that for entirely different reasons.

The New covenant was in effect when Christ shed his blood and it was sealed or shown to be authentic by the Holy Spirit at least at Pentecost which is in Acts 2

The Kingdom was realized once there was a king described somewhat in Acts 2. All authority was given to Jesus at his resurrection according to Acts 2 and Matthew 28:18.

I think we both understand that even though the new covenant was established at the cross and that Jesus said the cup was the new covenant in His blood, the Old Covenant had not yet passed away. It was becoming obsolete but had not passed. The Kingdom certainly was in place as well, but it was not at the point it would be. It was not until the second coming of Christ that He came in the glory of His kingdom.
Matthew 25:34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world"

This is when the Kingdom had fully come in. Up until that time the church was being inspired to be steadfast, to endure, to flee from unrighteous behavior, to prepare for the coming. All of these commands were given to the church of the first century because the kingdom was still being prayed for to come.