Are all Calvary Chapel churches dispensational?

[Guest]

It seems that they are staunch dispensationalists. Is this true?

[_Steve]

Yes. And it is more of a defining issue with them than with many other groups. The most important aspect of dispensationalism to the Calvary Chapel movement is in the area of eschatology. Anything other than belief in pre-tribulational premillennialism is regarded as a breach of "doctrinal purity."

[Guest]

Sean,
Steve is absolutely right! Even if you agree on everything else they do, teach and stand for, if you are a Calvary Chapel leader, teacher or pastor, and deviate even slightly from their dispensational (pre-trib, pre-mil) brand of eschatology, you are likely going to be "history" on swift order. As a matter of fact, you'll probably lose all but your "ticket" to the rapture and maybe even that!

On the other hand, if you choose to remain, they might still accept your financial contributions and usually don't mind if you help them warm their pews or bring in new converts to their fold, but forget about teaching there or having any other "future" with their [inner circle] leadership team. After all, business is business, and their "show" must go on. I'm not saying this because of "sour grapes" or because I'm "disgruntled", I'm just speaking the truth in love, especially after having done some independent study and come to some new insight and understanding of these issues.

A wise person once proclaimed: Unity on the essentials, Liberty on the non-essentials and Grace on everything else. I don't claim to be "wiser" or "holier" than anyone else, but I do believe there should be room for healthy discussion and the grace to accept various points of views on these issues regarding eschatology and these "things to come", etc.

By the way, I was involved for about 5 years (from 1999 to 2003) in teaching some "home fellowship" bible studies, while attending one of our local Calvary Chapels, actually, "CCW", Calvary Chapel Wildomar. It was during that time that my views started changing after having done some intense research on the "coat tails" of all the dust that the Y2K phenomena kicked up. While still teaching there, I decided to stick with basics & stay in books like John, 1st, 2nd & 3rd John, Galatians, Jude, and then moved on through Psalms and then to the minor prophets. I wasn't ready to "stir a stink" by diving headlong into the book of Revelation, and I'm sure if they'd known, they'd never give me the chance as long as there was any formal connection with the Calvary we attended at that time, which there was, because our bible study was officially listed in their church bulletin for at least 3 of those years.

The Lord has recently lead us out, like in the last two weeks; so now we are regrouping. We have left voluntarily, mostly due to some other serious problems that are effecting the pastor and his top leadership team. It's pretty "heavy" stuff and there's probably enough going on to write a good book about!

We have a peace about moving on, but please do keep us in prayer, and also the pastor and leadership team that are still there and have some very heavy issues to deal with. Currently there is a larger group of folks that have left now (or been shown the door!) than are still left in that church. From observation and insight, my theory is that when leaders are decieved in one area of their life, and it's not properly corrected or dealt with, it will eventually spread and cause more deception, and eventually wreak havoc.
This is NOT good teaching to be "under"! Long story, but I'm sure some of you can relate, especially if you've seen (or experienced) similar things happen in other churches before.

Thanks for the listen & your prayers.
Lord's blessings to you all & THANKS for including us in your fellowship here!

Michael (with Lorie) Borges
P.S. Steve, greetings from both Michael & Lorie down here in Lake Elsinore, California!
Glad we found this board & hope, by God's grace, we can stay connected!

[thrombomodulin]

Yes they are vehemently dispie, and though they don't see it as essential to salvation, ,they do place an inordinate emphasis on it. All in all, along with along with similar style movements, they are a good church if one prefers more nontraditional styles.

[_Steve]

I am inclined to agree with your assessment, Dee Dee. I think Calvary Chapel churches have many commendable qualities that are hard to find in other denominations.

The chief of these is their focus on biblical teaching. This is a great emphasis, and it changed my life when I was a teenager at Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. Unfortunately, the over-balance on eschatological speculation somewhat mars this otherwise strong suit.

In the old days, the Calvary movement had additional strengths that have become somewhat diluted or diminished as the movement became institutionalized as a denomination. Not all of the thousands of Calvary Chapel pastors have the gracious attitude and spiritual maturity that Chuck Smith has exhibited. Many have become clones of Chuck in terms of the content of their teaching, but have not matured into the gracious spirit that Chuck has.

Some of the strong traits that Calvary had when it was a single congregation under Chuck's apostolic leadership (which, perhaps, cannot be said to be true to the same extent today) would be (not particularly in this order):
1) lack of ego or of a controlling spirit in the leadership,
2) lack of narrow conditions of fellowship with saints of all descriptions,
3) a high degree of integrity in the handling of finances,
4) openness to the manifestation of the Spirit without embracing the sensational nonsense that often is found in other Pentecostal/charismatic movements,
5) total trust in God for church growth, promotion, finances, etc.
6) evidence of the love of God in great abundance and
7) a refusal to judge people by their outward appearances.

You will probably still find all of these strengths in many individual Calvary Chapels. The movement has become unwieldy large, and, as often happens in the second generation of a revival, has defined itself very narrowly and inflexibly in terms of doctrine and church polity. The result has been that there are a number of Calvary Chapels that are led by the same kind of controlling, proud and insecure pastors that you find in many other churches, who exhibit none of the magnanimity of the movement's founder.

It has been many years since I was close enough to Chuck himself to know whether all of his fame and success have changed him in any way. Since I do not know, I choose, as with all others, to give the benefit of the doubt, and to remember him as I knew him in the days of a revival in which he was the chief instrument—as a uniquely generous-spirited, humble and spiritual servant of Jesus Christ.

[Guest]

As it sounds like you guys have some history with Calvary Chapels I am wondering if you would be willing to offer some advise to my current situation.

My wife and I have been attending a Calvary Chapel in the great white north (Canada) for about 1.5 years. What mainly attracted us was the foundational biblical teaching and the loving fellowship of the group as a whole. A friend of mine who has attended the church for years before we got there recommended it to us, with the reservation that they were very strict regarding eschatology. He even went so far to relate a story about a friend of his that was asked to leave as he was creating sects within the church by teaching an eschatological doctrine that was not dispensational. At the time we first started to attend I did not know anything regarding eschatology and did not care.

Then I found out about our church's emphasis on the Zionist movement, and not knowing anything about it I have in the last year been heavily studying eschatology, and thus have come to understand that 1. the gent that was asked to leave the fellowship was a preterist, 2. I do not know enough to formulate an opinion (or even if I should), but I do not think that the dispensational doctrine impresses me much, 3. the preterist perspective and amillennialistic teachings that I have read so far do, 4. I do not agree with my church's doctrine that we are not spiritual Israel, 5. there are partial preterists at this church, but they have not made their views widely known nor are they serving in the church.

So now for the story. I do believe that the Lord has given me teaching/pastoral giftings, although I do not feel called into the ministry. Therefore I have a heart to teach God's people the bible as much as I can and as well rounded as I can. In the last six months we have learned that a couple from our church is leaving the plant a church exactly were we have been planning to move for about a year or so now. My question is how should I handle the situation? The future pastor has already told me he sees me as a major contributer to the new church, in teaching, leadership and visionary roles, and has already told me that the current church;s focus on Israel and eschatology will not be the focus of the new church. In fact, he even alluded to some reservations he has with the whole Calvary Chapel movement Do you guys think that Calvary Chapel will insist on a struckly dispensational leadership at this new church, or do you think they will leave the new partor to how he would have the leadership look? How can I avoid being in a conflict position years from now if my views do not line up with Calvary Chapel official teachings? This gent that is planting the church is definately a moderate (he basically believes the dispensational teachings, but is aware that he could be wrong and I don't think would be dogmatic regarding his doctrine), so I am prayfully hoping this will not be an issue. However, I do feel that sheep in our flock deserve to have all christian viewpoints taught them so they can choose their own view of interpretation (not just eschatology but the free will debate, young earth vs old, etc), so I know I will eventually have to broach the issue of end times doctrine.

I really feel (as Steve posted above) that Calvary Chapels have a lot going for them that is very hard to find at other church denominations, so I want to stick with these guys. Also, planting a church has been on my heart for a long time now so I don't think this situation is chance, I do feel the Lord is guiding us to be invloved (I suppose I could be wrong about anything in life though)

Any advice?

[Guest]

My family and I currently attend a Calvary Chapel and find the fellowship and teaching very edifying and I'd just like to add a few words about this topic:

It is true that heavy emphasis is given to the dispensationalist viewpoint within Calvary Chapel, but it's important to remember that each fellowship stands as an individual entity and therefore has it's own unique personality (if I may use that illustration). My pastor and the elders in my church are very Godly men and are sincerely sold-out to the Lord. I have not found, in my area, a fellowship that has been as spritually uplifting, edifying, and supportive for my walk as Calvary Chapel.

I have in recent years strayed out of the dispensationalist camp and have pretty much adopted the partial preterist view as my present understanding. I have done this with great fear and trembling and without much fanfare, knowing that many in my congregation hold dearly to the futurist view. I also teach small groups within the church and do all that I can to avoid the topic of eschatology. Apart from the occassional annoyance of hearing a passage getting twisted to fit into the dispensationalist paradigm, I don't see this as a major problem. It's not that I don't see the issue as important, I do. But I also believe that all us Christians have our "sacred cows" that we can get quite devisive over. I also strongly believe that all Christians believe and even teach (if we are teachers) something that is not altogether accurate. Let's face it, the finer points of the Bible can be very difficult to understand.

I guess the point I'm making is this:

1) We need to be careful about belittling the views of others, even if we're certain they're wrong.

2) We can be right in all the wrong ways (see 1Cor 13)

3) If we find the perfect church, we'd do well to get out quick before we ruin it.

4) The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing....Christ crucified.

God bless.

[Guest]

Christopher,
At what point do you actually give your opinion? I mean, if everyone is talking about when and where the anti-christ is living or going to spring up, do you just bite your tongue?

I'm just curious because at the church I go to, there are issues like this, but not dispensational issues. I'm just wondering, at what point does it become edifying to discuss certain issues. And at what point do we just bear it, even though there may be many christians at the church that don't know any better and instead of being encouraged to think exhautively thorugh an issue, they are just told "this is the way it is". In other words, new believers are hearing something that may not be true, but are being told, as they would see it, unanimously that a certian very is the only view.

[Guest]

Michael Borges,

I enjoyed reading your post here but cannot help but wonder where you have been? How are things going for you and family after leaving Calvary?

GOD Bless

[Guest]

Sean,

Good questions. I feel there is definitely a delicate balance to strike in this area and that all things must be done in love and humility. As for myself, I try to just let the Lord open those doors for me to share my opinion as He sees fit. Like I said in my last post, I do think the issue is important, as is any issue we wrestle with as we try to rightly divide the word of truth. However, I want to be careful not to come out with guns blazing because I think that is more damaging than profitable (I've done this both in witnessing to non-believers and debating scripture with believers, the results can be disastrous).

If someone asks me about the anti-christ, I tell them that I know of many anti-christs, just as John stated in his epistles. If they talk about the rapture coming soon, I'll ask them how do they know. I let the conversation go from there and try to be very respectful to whomever I'm speaking to. I won't hide my position, but I don't bring it up either. And I've found that in my particular church that, although the dispensationalist view is very dominant, the subject doesn't come up that often as a topic of discussion. It's more the case that people make rhetorical comments than anything. I try not to engage someone in a discussion on the issue unless they are a very close and trusted friend of mine that I know will not be offended by an opposing view, or if someone is seeking my opinion.

There are many in my church that do know my position on eschatology (and I would bet, even a few that share it), even some in leadership. I don't deny it, just downplay it.

As for new believers? Again, I believe it's just part of the Christian experience to go through periods of believing non-essential things that are not entirely true. I leave that up to God. Someone who is honestly seeking the truth will find it eventually. But even if they don't find the truth on this issue, it's not a salvation issue so I don't place priority on defending my position because I can't say with absolute certainty that my position is truth, but I'm still saved.

I would challenge passionately (like a mother bear) any false doctrine that taught against the essentials, but I trust that God reveals those things that need to be addressed through the conviction of the Spirit (as well as the proper timing).

Thanks for your reply.