Left Behind......sheesh!

[AaronBDisney]

For the past 2 years, since listening to Steve Gregg's eschatology series, I have been confused about end times events. Not because Steve's lessons were unclear, but because there was so much sense in what was said.

I have heard all my life that Israel's return is prophesied, 7 years trib is prophesied, Antichrist (as an individual) is prophesied, and then Steve's lectures kind of pulled the wool away. Then I went to my pastor all excited about what I'd learned and he told me I was getting into dangerous territory. My pastor is a good man and truly cares about the people of our church and I trust him, so I kind of got disenchanted with the Amil - no trib thinkers, and decided to not speak on the subject much to anyone until I researched it.

I tried learning the dispensational construct from some of the better, or at least more renowned, writers and speakers on the subject. I still kept hearing all the answers to their arguments in the back of my mind.

Then recently I read the "Left Behind" series.....yes, all the way through to the "Glorious Appearing".... I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. It was truly some of the most laughable stuff I've ever heard. There were literal locusts with women's hair chanting "Apollyon Apollyon" over and over..... So I decided to listen to Steve's lectures once again.

I'm just gonna end all my confusion and offically join with 90% of you on here and say that at the moment (I know I've said it before, but I'm sick of being wishy washy this time) I find nothing compelling at all in the dispensational scheme and must say that the Amil position is the only one that makes alot of sense.

There are still a few things that I find to be weak about the position, but not nearly so weak as the popular view. It took long enough I suppose, but I found it very difficult to depart from such a popular view. But I guess the popular view of many subjects in Church history has been wrong so I don't feel too stupid for believing those things I guess.

But if anyone is hanging in between...read Left Behind.... You'll run with all your might from that prospect, believe me!

[psychohmike]

Now all you need to do is move all the way over to the dark side.

[mattrose]

I think you're doing it the right way. We should, in general, be slow and thoughtful when changing our doctrinal beliefs.

[Murf]

Your next phase will be more telling in my opinion. How will you converse with those around you that still believe otherwise? It is often very difficult to present new ideas to folks who aren't seeking Truth. Trying to speak to them in Love and Truth can be a difficult task at times and I wish you luck. It helped me to remember that no one gets to Heaven based on their echatology.

tim

[darinhouston]

I just hate to see such good people wasting so much time and resources on such trash -- I have a good friend who's got Barry Battelstein coming to a home gathering, taking collections, etc. and this time and their (not inconsequential) resources could be used for such better service in my opinion than "divining the 'times and seasons' and supporting Israel" etc. This becomes a real driver in many people's mission to "support Israel" at the cost of local missions, etc.

It's not that I have a problem with their having different "views," but instead their devotion to the "cause" that makes me cringe. Of course, many people say the same about my time spent in study of theology and engaging in discussions like these, etc....

I've been invited to this gathering, and I'll probably just RSVP that I can't make it, but I have been trying to think of a way to decline that would make them at least "think" about the alternative positions without being disrespectful or disdainful of the Dispensational views. I thought about accepting on the condition that they listen to Steve's series (or maybe send them an mp3 of that little girl's call to the radio show the other day just as something they might be interested in hearing).

[TK]

Your next phase will be more telling in my opinion. How will you converse with those around you that still believe otherwise? It is often very difficult to present new ideas to folks who aren't seeking Truth. Trying to speak to them in Love and Truth can be a difficult task at times and I wish you luck. It helped me to remember that no one gets to Heaven based on their echatology.

tim

I avoid the subject entirely unless cornered. I dont believe that in the 8 years or so that i've been attending my chruch that end times has ever once been preached from the pulpit and that doesnt bother me a bit. there are more pressing concerns that should be taught, IMO. If a person is a disciple of the Lord, they should be ready for any scenario.

TK

[TK]

Aaron-

you have to admit the microwave guns they used during the battle of armageddon were pretty cool.

TK

[AaronBDisney]

Aaron-

you have to admit the microwave guns they used during the battle of armageddon were pretty cool.

TK

Ha! Yeah, I guess they were. They just heat people up and incapacitate them. The story, at times, was kind of entertaining, but it kept going through my mind "Good grief, millions of people have read this and consider it to be a very real scenario!".

I know in my mind that end times prophecy is not even 1/1000th as important as many people believe it to be, yet there are so many people so hung up on it that I feel this burning need to know what I'm talking about with it. I've determined in my own mind though, to be somewhat like you, TK. I would just rather avoid the subject altogether. However, I also feel the need to clarify the idiocy of some wild conjectures that are commonly made by the popular prophecy speakers.

I think alot of them are very intelligent and honest people who have not really examined scripture compared with scripture.

That's what's great about Steve. I haven't always agreed with his position on everything, but he can pull verses and scriptures in context from every part of the Bible and have them all in one place. When you do that with this subject you cannot possibly find the dispensational end times "Left Behind" type of story anywhere. And you do see the destruction of the old system and the dispersion of the Jews in many places that you used to project at least 2000 years forward and apply to some revamped Roman empire that will be God's hand in the "time of Jacob's trouble".

[anochria]

There are still a few things that I find to be weak about the position,

Just curious what those are, in your opinion.

[darinhouston]

I'm sorry -- I do see this as a big issue -- not so much for its "end times" importance -- I'm a bit pan-millenial in that regard. (though I'm firmly amil, personally, I do think that we can all just let things "pan" out as to God's plan for eternity and let folks have differing views about it)

But, this is more than just a view of the future -- I can accept the historic premil position as just something I can quietly disagree with someone about.

Dispensationalism, on the other hand, involves a complete hermeneutic that changes material aspects of God's promises, issues about who the church is and what God's promises are to it and its obligations to God, the very relevance of Christ's teachings to our lives (the one thing Christ said makes us Christians), etc. (not to mention the incredible public policy issues and global relations / national security issues it involves).

This seems more like error that should be corrected, but I do recognize how controversial it can be, and try to avoid the conflict beyond letting folks be surprised to note that I have a strange view they've never heard of before and hope that they wonder what it is and ask or investigate for themselves (seeing it odd that someone they respect as having informed beliefs could believe such an unconventional thing as the amil position).