Amills/ Prets and One World Government

[Guest]

I was reading an Economics book and the author was arguing that the quicker that European Union and other similar blocs become completely unified economic blocs, the better for everybody. He also noted (without comment) that such a moves would also likely include political union as well. As a Premillennialist, I would consider this to be perfect prepration for the a one world Government scenario into which the antichrist will step in and manipulate.

Most of you are non-premillenial. I was wandering, how do you view such things. For example, if the EU became basically one nation-state and then NAFTA followed suit etc. And then eventually they all united together to make the globe one gigantic politico-economic union, would this have any prophetic signifcance for you guys?

in Christ,
Ely

[Guest]

For me, it's all a big "meh." Since I don't believe in the future Antichrist, I'm not the least bit afraid of One World Government, anymore than I am of our current system.

I recognize, however, that a unified world government might be a perfect setup for a dictator, which could make things rough on Christians or other groups. But we've had it easy for a long time...

[Guest]

As a "historic pre-millenialist", I agree with your thinking in this matter, Ely.

Indeed, I see the estabishment of a one-world government as the next event on the eschatological menu. I think that for a short period it will work well. Any group or country that rebels will be quickly and severely dealt with. So there will be "peace and safety" throughout the world for a short season. I think the first white horse of revelation depicts this World Government. I think it is also written about in Revelation as "Babylon the great harlot" that will be a centre of trade, even in the "bodies and souls of people."

But that world government will be short-lived. It is too large and cumbersome to be efficient. It is divided into ten kingdoms. John next sees a red horse in his vision. This represents a period of world war. Three of the kingdoms fight against the other seven. They are defeated, and an eighth kingdom arises. John also sees a black horse in his vision, sybolic of famine, and finally a green horse, symbolic of death.

The eight kingdom is headed by antichrist (or "the beast").
He hates the big power and takes authority himself over the whole world.
He persecutes disciples of Christ, but then Christ appears. John sees him as riding a white horse. He also hears the seventh trumpet sounding. Then "the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of God and His Messiah permanently." Messiah slays his enemies. God's judgment comes upon His enemies via "the bowl" judgments.

Events to come are not sequentially recorded from beginning to end.
Sometimes the sequence of events is repeated in Revelation in a different vision of John's.

[Guest]

Is a one world government something that is explicitly stated in any passages of scripture? Or is it something necessary for and deducted from the futurist paradigm?

So anyhow...Any SPECIFIC verses? Yes...No?

As a "historic pre-millenialist", I agree with your thinking in this matter, Ely.

Indeed, I see the estabishment of a one-world government as the next event on the eschatological menu. I think that for a short period it will work well. Any group or country that rebels will be quickly and severely dealt with. So there will be "peace and safety" throughout the world for a short season. I think the first white horse of revelation depicts this World Government. I think it is also written about in Revelation as "Babylon the great harlot" that will be a centre of trade, even in the "bodies and souls of people."

But that world government will be short-lived. It is too large and cumbersome to be efficient. It is divided into ten kingdoms. John next sees a red horse in his vision. This represents a period of world war. Three of the kingdoms fight against the other seven. They are defeated, and an eighth kingdom arises. John also sees a black horse in his vision, sybolic of famine, and finally a green horse, symbolic of death.

The eight kingdom is headed by antichrist (or "the beast").
He hates the big power and takes authority himself over the whole world.
He persecutes disciples of Christ, but then Christ appears. John sees him as riding a white horse. He also hears the seventh trumpet sounding. Then "the kingdoms of this world become the kingdom of God and His Messiah permanently." Messiah slays his enemies. God's judgment comes upon His enemies via "the bowl" judgments.

Events to come are not sequentially recorded from beginning to end.
Sometimes the sequence of events is repeated in Revelation in a different vision of John's.

[Guest]

Most of you are non-premillenial. I was wandering, how do you view such things. For example, if the EU became basically one nation-state and then NAFTA followed suit etc. And then eventually they all united together to make the globe one gigantic politico-economic union, would this have any prophetic signifcance for you guys?

Since none of us are infallible i'm keeping all options open and watching and praying.

[Guest]

Is a one world government something that is explicitly stated in any passages of scripture?

Well, the phrase "a one world government" is not explicitly stated anywhere in Scripture. But the concept would seem to be hinted at in passages such as the following:

7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev 13

Since none of us are infallible i'm keeping all options open and watching and praying.

Sounds like a wise policy.

[Guest]

I've always understood the book of Revelation to be a highly symbolic book. And that it is wrong to interpret symbols plainly. In that symbols don't symbolize themselves, but something else. I mean you're not looking for a literal dragon with a literal chain around his neck are you?

mike

Is a one world government something that is explicitly stated in any passages of scripture?

Well, the phrase "a one world government" is not explicitly stated anywhere in Scripture. But the concept would seem to be hinted at in passages such as the following:

7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev 13

Since none of us are infallible i'm keeping all options open and watching and praying.

Sounds like a wise policy.

[Guest]

For you have need of endurance, so that you may do the will of God and receive what is promised. For yet a little while, and the coming one shall come and shall not tarry; Hebrews 10:36

This passage is speaking of "receiving what is promised." Do we not receive what is promised at the second coming of Christ? "The coming one shall come and not tarry." Does this not speak of the second coming of Christ?

The passage tells us that the Coming One will come "in a little while." It tells us that He "will not tarry." But here we are 2000 years later, and He hasn't yet come!. So what becomes of your mockery: "Near means far", etc.?

I mean you're not looking for a literal dragon with a literal chain around his neck are you?

A common mistake by those who find allegories where none exist. They assume that literalists must interpret every passage literally in order to be consistent.

To find allegory in virtually every passage of Scripture is a move from reality into fables. Paul warns against fables in I and II Timothy, and elsewhere.

[Guest]

Well...I do believe that the book of Hebrews is not speaking about something that is still future to us. But that "their salvation was nearer than when they first believed." And that the coming one did come just as He prophecied upon those who crucified Him and rejected the message of the gospel. That did happen...He did not tarry.

If you are saying that it is still future then the burden is on you to explain why near means far and a little while means a long while.

I mock because so many people today make a mockery of scripture by projecting first century verses way off into the future.

And the burden is on YOU to explain in Rev. 20 to explain why the dragon, pit and chain are not literal but the 1000 years is. The burden is on YOU to show me the method of interpretation that you use is the right one that I may be convinced.

And I never said that the whole of the book of Revelation was allegory. That is something you assume. I said that it was symbolic and that by definition symbols do not symbolize themselves.

The book of Revelation from chapter 4 thru 22 is symbolic. All of it. It is inconsistent to pick and choose which verses are symbolic and which ones are not. And I challenge you to show me why it is ok to pick and choose which verses aren't symbolic.

Thank you...And I look forward to your answer.

mike

For you have need of endurance, so that you may do the will of God and receive what is promised. For yet a little while, and the coming one shall come and shall not tarry; Hebrews 10:36

This passage is speaking of "receiving what is promised." Do we not receive what is promised at the second coming of Christ? "The coming one shall come and not tarry." Does this not speak of the second coming of Christ?

The passage tells us that the Coming One will come "in a little while." It tells us that He "will not tarry." But here we are 2000 years later, and He hasn't yet come!. So what becomes of your mockery: "Near means far", etc.?

I mean you're not looking for a literal dragon with a literal chain around his neck are you?

A common mistake by those who find allegories where none exist. They assume that literalists must interpret every passage literally in order to be consistent.

To find allegory in virtually every passage of Scripture is a move from reality into fables. Paul warns against fables in I and II Timothy, and elsewhere.

[Guest]

mike,

You didn't make the slightest effort to answer my original question. My question was not aimed at starting yet another futurist-preterist debate. I simply wanted to know if the formation of a global socio-political/economic unit would be of any consequence to non-futurists.

Furthermore, you asked a question asking for "Any SPECIFIC verses" pointing to a global government. I attempted to engage with your question (despite you ignoring my first quesiton) by giving gave an answer which contained a specific passage. Again, you made no effort to engage with what I said. Rather, you gave a pithy swipe about literalism.

It appears you want to turn this thread into a very general (unedifying) futurist-preterist debate. I really hope you do not succeed.