The Narrow Path Ministries

This question is directed mainly to the full preterist, as I don't understand the position and was hoping maybe someone could help a brother out.

Has the second resurrection spoken about in Rev 20 taken place already in this view point? And if so, when was the 1000 years spoken about in Rev 20 as well? (I currently understand the 1000 years to be a symbolic number of the time between Christs first coming and His second coming, do the full preterist see it the same way?) I myself am currently still waiting for His return and understand that to be a future event, which actually in some sense I believe will be the moment I shed this mortal body, as well as a general judgement upon everyone remaining on the earth at some point in the future. (much like Noah's time, but with Fire this time)

Do the full preterist see EVERYTHING (all prophecy) in the Bible as being fullfilled already? If so, then Satan is already thrown in the lake of fire? I do not see it that way, and was just wondering if a loving brother or sister who believes such might enlighten me on how someone might try to justify such an interpretation.

Anyway, I am far from understanding the full prteterist position and reconciling it with Scripture, but I admit it chalenges me to dig and meditate on His Word.

Just another question popped to mind... If the ressurection and the "rapture" as spoken of in 1 Thess 4 happened in AD 70 (Which I guess is the position the full preterist takes) then how can 1, 2, and 3 John be written by the Apostle John after AD 70? did he miss it?

Douglas wrote:This question is directed mainly to the full preterist, as I don't understand the position and was hoping maybe someone could help a brother out.

Has the second resurrection spoken about in Rev 20 taken place already in this view point? And if so, when was the 1000 years spoken about in Rev 20 as well? (I currently understand the 1000 years to be a symbolic number of the time between Christs first coming and His second coming, do the full preterist see it the same way?) I myself am currently still waiting for His return and understand that to be a future event, which actually in some sense I believe will be the moment I shed this mortal body, as well as a general judgement upon everyone remaining on the earth at some point in the future. (much like Noah's time, but with Fire this time)

Do the full preterist see EVERYTHING (all prophecy) in the Bible as being fullfilled already? If so, then Satan is already thrown in the lake of fire? I do not see it that way, and was just wondering if a loving brother or sister who believes such might enlighten me on how someone might try to justify such an interpretation.

Anyway, I am far from understanding the full prteterist position and reconciling it with Scripture, but I admit it chalenges me to dig and meditate on His Word.

Douglas,

There are several key things concerning Revelation. 1) It is highly symbolic in many places 2) It quotes or makes allusion to OT passages over 200 times (some say 400), and 3) is governed strictly by the time frame book ends.

Revelation concerns itself with "time of the end" events. I don't think anyone will dispute this. However, the dispute does arise concerning the timing and nature of these events, including the resurrection.

So Douglas, a question has to be asked and an answer must be given. When do you believe the author of Revelation in writing to the seven churches in Asia Minor expected these "time of the end" events to occur? The vast majority of people believe these events were not going to happen for thousands of years. I believe the reason why is because the "nature" of the 2nd appearing and the "nature" of the resurrection governs their thinking and consequently their timing as well. I also believed this at one time, but no longer. The physicality that is attached to their "natures" is wrong.

We should be more concerned with what John said concerning the "when" of the events. Right?

Revelation 1:1 - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation 1:3 - Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

[Content of Revelation]

Revelation 22:6 - And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

Revelation 22:10 - And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. (Compare with Daniel 12:9)

If one is unable to accept these clear and inspired time references to the timing of these events, there will be no point in pursuing the contents...

P.S. - We are agreed in the symbolic usage of the 1,000 years as referring to the transition from the old covenant age to the new covenant age (30-70 AD)

Blessings, Ted

Douglas wrote:Just another question popped to mind... If the ressurection and the "rapture" as spoken of in 1 Thess 4 happened in AD 70 (Which I guess is the position the full preterist takes) then how can 1, 2, and 3 John be written by the Apostle John after AD 70? did he miss it?

Douglas,

Why do you say he missed it and why do you believe it was written after 70 AD? You need to get John A. T. Robinson's book "Redating the New Testament."

1 John 2:18 - Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Seems like he was still waiting for it...It's a moot point anyway - there are no "physical" consequences...

Hopefully you are not thinking "physical" rapture as in a wisking away from planet earth. Do you remember Hymaneus and Philetus and the controversy they had stirred up because they had succeeded in overthrowing the faith of some saying the resurrection was past (prior to 70 AD)? Here is a response from a gentlemen who has come under attack by his brother's pastor of late. He uses the example of Hymaneus & Philetus to explain some things about the resurrection...

2 Timothy 2:17-18 (NKJV) And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.

They must have believed that the resurrection would be spiritual in nature, and, therefore, not subject to confirmation by any physical evidence. If the early Christians had believed that the resurrection would involve the physical bodies coming out of the graves, as is taught today, Hymenaius and Philitus could never have convinced anyone that the resurrection had already happened.
They also must have believed that life on earth would go on with no material change after the resurrection. They didn't believe that they would be on a renovated planet earth as a consequence of the resurrection. Otherwise, the teaching of Hymenaeus and Philetus would have been impossible. No one would have paid any attention to them.
The reason that their teaching that the resurrection has already happened was overthrowing the faith of some was that it postulated a consummation of the spiritual kingdom, while the earthly temple in Jerusalem still stood. This was a mixture of law and grace. This destroyed the faith of some by making the works of the law a part of the New Covenant. That is why Paul said in the next verse, The Lord knows those who are His. Those who believe by faith, not of works of the Law.

Here is a quote of Eusebius, a church father, in regards to the timing of things. I quote him because we are often accused that are position is totally contrary to church history. What do you think?

EUSEBIUS OF CAESAREA (A.D. 312)
"The Holy Scriptures foretell that there will be unmistakable signs of the Coming of Christ. Now there were among the Hebrews three outstanding offices of dignity, which made the nation famous, firstly the kingship, secondly that of prophet, and lastly the high priesthood. The prophecies said that the abolition and complete destruction of all these three together would be the sign of the presence of the Christ. And that the proofs that the times had come, would lie in the ceasing of the Mosaic worship, the desolation of Jerusalem and its Temple, and the subjection of the whole Jewish race to its enemies. The holy oracles foretold that all these changes, which had not been made in the days of the prophets of old, would take place at the coming of the Christ, which I will presently shew to have been fulfilled as never before in accordance with the predictions."

Keep studying and asking questions...Ted

Douglas wrote:Just another question popped to mind... If the ressurection and the "rapture" as spoken of in 1 Thess 4 happened in AD 70 (Which I guess is the position the full preterist takes) then how can 1, 2, and 3 John be written by the Apostle John after AD 70? did he miss it?

Another answer just popped to mind...

How could the believers from the first century church at Thessalonica know what was restraining the man of sin if the man of sin is apparently the anti-christ that has not even appeared yet? Almost too funny to even post, yet this is what dispensationalism believes. No offence meant...

2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 - And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

"now" = prior to 70 AD
"ye" = the first century Thessalonians
"know" = already had knowledge

Let me add to this. According to 1 Thess 2:15 they were presently undergoing persecution by the Jews. In Paul's second letter to them he tells them of the rest THEY were about to receive from this persecution. You might find it interesting when this was to occur, although you may not be inclined to believe it...

2 Thess 1:6-9 - Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

"to them that trouble you" = 1st century persecuting Jews
"to you who are troubled" = 1st century Thessalonian believers
"rest" = freedom from persecution
"with us" = Paul, Silvanus, Timothy and the Thessalonian believers (Paul is not yet aware that he would die before the second coming)
"when" = the time these believers would receive rest
"the rest of the passage" = the 2nd coming of Christ

Are we having fun yet?

Blessings, Ted

Ted, thanks for the responses, they are enlightning, but I still wonder about Satan being thrown in the lake of fire.... would you consider that Satan and all those who are not found in the book of life have already been thrown in the lake of fire back in AD 70?

Douglas wrote:Ted, thanks for the responses, they are enlightning, but I still wonder about Satan being thrown in the lake of fire.... would you consider that Satan and all those who are not found in the book of life have already been thrown in the lake of fire back in AD 70?

I will answer with a question. Were those events considered to be occurring within the time frame that John stated?

Some preterists believe that Satan being cast into the lake of fire did not completely extinguish his ministry among us. You will have to decide for yourself. To me, being tossed into the lake of fire completely eliminates him or it. I think we do not really understand the deep, deep depths of sin and just how depraved we can be. For the most part, North America is pretty civilzed, but there are pockets where the unthinkable is going on. In other countries where the gospel is not so prevalent things are even more worse... I don't believe we need to believe the devil made us do it - it is our very sin nature, opposed to God in every way that continues the destruction in society...

But then again I could be wrong... (I can hardly wait for all the comments on that statement...)

Blessings, Ted

All the things that are to shortly come to pass as stated in Rev. "started" in the first century, as I would agree as well, but I am not sure the timing statements in Rev. would necesitate the completion of all those things, such as the throwing of Satan into the lake of fire.

I believe that Satan is Bound right now, and that is a tough one for any dispensationalilst to grasp, as is your idea that Satan is actually already thrown in the lake of fire for me to believe at this point and time.... But the cool thing is that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all understanding. So I am learning and growing each day brother... Keep up the good work and stay open to the truth. As I try to do the same.

Hello Douglas.

Nice to meet you {unless we posted on the old forum? I've forgotten if we did}, ....

I'm not a full-preterist...but saw where:

You wrote:Just another question popped to mind... If the ressurection and the "rapture" as spoken of in 1 Thess 4 happened in AD 70 (Which I guess is the position the full preterist takes) then how can 1, 2, and 3 John be written by the Apostle John after AD 70? did he miss it?

The earliest date for the death of John the Apostle I've been able to find is 89AD.

Jude, the brother of the Lord, is said to have died in Edessa in 72AD.

Barnabas, companion of Paul, was stoned by Jews in 73AD.

Simon the Zealot was killed in 74AD.

Thus far, no full-preterist has replied if John the Apostle missed the rapture. Like yourself, I'd be interested what they have to say about both about him, and the others listed above. Thanks & have a good weekend,

RickC wrote:Hello Douglas.

Nice to meet you {unless we posted on the old forum? I've forgotten if we did}, ....

I'm not a full-preterist...but saw where:

You wrote:Just another question popped to mind... If the ressurection and the "rapture" as spoken of in 1 Thess 4 happened in AD 70 (Which I guess is the position the full preterist takes) then how can 1, 2, and 3 John be written by the Apostle John after AD 70? did he miss it?

The earliest date for the death of John the Apostle I've been able to find is 89AD.

Jude, the brother of the Lord, is said to have died in Edessa in 72AD.

Barnabas, companion of Paul, was stoned by Jews in 73AD.

Simon the Zealot was killed in 74AD.

Thus far, no full-preterist has replied if John the Apostle missed the rapture. Like yourself, I'd be interested what they have to say about both about him, and the others listed above. Thanks & have a good weekend,

Hi Rick,

I don't know if the gentlemen listed above were still alive after 70 AD since we only have tradition to go by. But it doesn't really matter at all. John 21:22 probably supports your view that John was alive at the 2nd coming. It only matters to those who believe in a physical wisking away from planet earth to heaven. Besides, I believe there were many Christians alive, at least if they heeded Christ's warning to flee when they saw the abomination of desolation. So I am not sure what you meant by your question. I guess it depends on exactly what you mean by the "rapture." There are a few views..

Blessings, Ted