Have you considered that Revelation may be John's recording of the Olivet Discourse, only in symbols? This is fodder for a new thread, but Revelation 6 parallels much of Matthew 24. In this line of reasoning, all or most of Revelation is about the destruction of Jerusalem as well. Thus the harlot could be Israel.
I find it hard to believe such a magnificent book is just John's Olivet discourse. It's addressed to 7 churches which could mean to all churches and it's about what was and is and will be which sounds like more then just 70AD.
"Until the TIMES of the Gentiles shall be fulfilled.&qu
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_STEVE7150
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Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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I personally don't believe that Revelation is John's expansion on the Olivet Discourse, but it is interesting that John's Gospel alone omits the discourse (of course, that might not be significant, since John omits most of what the synoptics include).
I believe there is excellent evidence that Revelation was written earlier than John's Gospel. It may be that John recognised that the visions cover the same ground as does the Olivet Discourse, and so, when he got around to writing his Gospel, he left the discourse out—figuring he had already covered that subject matter elsewhere. Just a theory.
I believe there is excellent evidence that Revelation was written earlier than John's Gospel. It may be that John recognised that the visions cover the same ground as does the Olivet Discourse, and so, when he got around to writing his Gospel, he left the discourse out—figuring he had already covered that subject matter elsewhere. Just a theory.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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In Jesus,
Steve
Steve
Hi,
Same here. Just a theory. I believe much of it is simliar to the Olivet discourse. I believe in Revelation, there is from our vantage point more of what was, and less of what will be. And indeed, it is magnificent.
Regards,
JD
Same here. Just a theory. I believe much of it is simliar to the Olivet discourse. I believe in Revelation, there is from our vantage point more of what was, and less of what will be. And indeed, it is magnificent.
Regards,
JD
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Hi
"To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
7Look, he is coming with the clouds,
and every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him;
and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.
8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1: 5-8
"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c]
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." Matthew 24:26-31
So do you guys believe these are the same event ? Would you say they have already happened in 70 A.D.?
7Look, he is coming with the clouds,
and every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him;
and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.
8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1: 5-8
"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c]
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." Matthew 24:26-31
So do you guys believe these are the same event ? Would you say they have already happened in 70 A.D.?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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It's here: http://www.wvss.com/forumc/viewtopic.php?t=562Allyn wrote:Where is that Sean? I don't think I have seen that new thread.location of the great tribulation
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. (John 13:35)
Crusader, would it do any good to explain these to you?"To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
7Look, he is coming with the clouds,
and every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him;
and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.
8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1: 5-8
"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c]
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." Matthew 24:26-31
So do you guys believe these are the same event ? Would you say they have already happened in 70 A.D.?
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Thanks Sean, I remember seeing that now that you have reminded me.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Crusader,
I suggested two options for you. I was serious. You have apparently made no effort to learn anything, so I am not interested in further interaction with you. The answers to your questions (if you really want the answers, which I doubt) can be found both in the lectures I recommended and at other threads in this forum.
I suggested two options for you. I was serious. You have apparently made no effort to learn anything, so I am not interested in further interaction with you. The answers to your questions (if you really want the answers, which I doubt) can be found both in the lectures I recommended and at other threads in this forum.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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In Jesus,
Steve
Steve
Hi
Oh thats ok with me if you choose that action. I am not going anywhere, this site needs the other side of the discussion.If someone by accident come to this site they are going to need to see that the preterist view has many many weaknesses both Scripturally and historically.Even now I am looking at the early Church fathers to see what they thought about the dates of Revelation. Seems it was even written till 90 something A.D which really shoots some holes in your idea that Revelation was fulfilled in 70 A.D.
In His Service
Crusader
In His Service
Crusader
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And there are just as many who say it was before 70AD so how many holes are in your bucket?
How about a verse by verse analysis? You up to the challenge?
How about a verse by verse analysis? You up to the challenge?
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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