The Epistles
Re: The Epistles
TK, speaking for myself, what I am giving is not to bring you or anyone over to my side. You asked me a question so I have been giving you the most complete answer I can. In fact I would never have started a preterist thread on my own. The very first thread in this Eschatology board was a thread with me in the title. What's a brother to do but be a man of integrety and answer as best I can. Sean was the first to exclaim that he couldn't believe I was a full-preterist. So my brother in Christ. I am not pushing you in any direction. If you do not especially care for endtimes stuff then that's ok. However I think it is a critical area we should be well informed in.
Re: The Epistles
True, Mellontes, but i do not have unlimited free time, i mean, i cant study EVERYTHING in depth. i probably am on here more that I should be. why in the world do you care if you convince me of something? i have already said that you may be right. and i have previously said that i do believe a lot of things were fulfilled in 70 AD- i am not a full dispensationalist- but i was a few years ago. i have a Ryrie sudy bible and everything!
besides, allyn is doing a great job of spoon feeding.
keep it up, Allyn!
TK
besides, allyn is doing a great job of spoon feeding.
keep it up, Allyn!
TK
Re: The Epistles
allyn- i just saw your last post.
i truly appreciate what you are doing here. i certainly do intend to read over the verses you have posted carefully, and will very likely share them with some good friends of mine. perhaps we will become full preterists together. who knows?
TK
i truly appreciate what you are doing here. i certainly do intend to read over the verses you have posted carefully, and will very likely share them with some good friends of mine. perhaps we will become full preterists together. who knows?
TK
Re: The Epistles
TK,
You're a good man, Charlie Brown
You're a good man, Charlie Brown
Re: The Epistles
The Book of 2nd Timothy
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(written 65 AD)
(2nd Timothy 1:12) 12 For this reason I also suffer these things, but I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day.
(2nd Timothy 1:18) 18 the Lord grant to him to find mercy from the Lord on that day--and you know very well what services he rendered at Ephesus.
(2nd Timothy 2:17-18) 17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.
When people find out that Preterists believe that the second coming of Christ and the resurrection have already happened, if they are familiar with this passage of scripture, they usually call us heretics or a Hymenean. The truth of the matter is that the reason Hymenaeus and Philetus were wrong is that they were claiming that the resurrection had already taken place, and yet the temple was still standing. That would be not only incorrect based on what Christ had prophesied, but it would be mixing Old Covenant Judaism and the works of the law with New Covenant Christianity and grace. For if the temple still had significance in the New Covenant then that would be mixing grace with works. The destruction of the temple was the sign that the Old Covenant and Judaism was completely done away with, and that God was no longer abiding in the temple, but in the hearts of his people. That is why they were wrong. The resurrection occurred when the temple was destroyed and that happened in 70AD just as Christ prophesied in the Olivet Discourse.
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(written 65 AD)
(2nd Timothy 1:12) 12 For this reason I also suffer these things, but I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day.
(2nd Timothy 1:18) 18 the Lord grant to him to find mercy from the Lord on that day--and you know very well what services he rendered at Ephesus.
(2nd Timothy 2:17-18) 17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.
When people find out that Preterists believe that the second coming of Christ and the resurrection have already happened, if they are familiar with this passage of scripture, they usually call us heretics or a Hymenean. The truth of the matter is that the reason Hymenaeus and Philetus were wrong is that they were claiming that the resurrection had already taken place, and yet the temple was still standing. That would be not only incorrect based on what Christ had prophesied, but it would be mixing Old Covenant Judaism and the works of the law with New Covenant Christianity and grace. For if the temple still had significance in the New Covenant then that would be mixing grace with works. The destruction of the temple was the sign that the Old Covenant and Judaism was completely done away with, and that God was no longer abiding in the temple, but in the hearts of his people. That is why they were wrong. The resurrection occurred when the temple was destroyed and that happened in 70AD just as Christ prophesied in the Olivet Discourse.
Re: The Epistles
The Book of 1st John
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(written 64 or 65 AD)
Before we venture into the writings of John, let me say that there are traditions and speculations that state that the books of 1st, 2nd and 3rd John, and the book of Revelation were not written till some time around 90-96AD (20-26 years after the destruction of Jerusalem). This may be tradition, and it may be believed by many people, but it is not my position. I believe that the topics in his epistles, and particular scriptures in Revelation help verify the books as being written sometime just before the siege of Jerusalem in 66AD. The epistles deal with similar topics that James, Peter, Paul, and Jude wrote about (the end time apostasy, the spirit of antichrist, and false teachers), and the book of Revelation itself even deals with the subject of the temple, which would not have been standing in 90-96AD. Therefore I believe that John's writings all fall in the time frame of around 66 AD. If you would like to study more on this subject there are a number of good books out there that help date the books of the Bible. One such book is, "The Development of the New Testament" by Arthur M. Ogden. Ogden does not write from a Preterist perspective. He never even mentions his eschatology. This, I feel, lends credibility to his positions. There are other books that deal with the subject, but Ogden does a good job validating the time of John's writings, as well as the other books of the New Testament.
(1st John 2:18) 18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
Up to this point we have read from other New Testament writers the term "last days". Now, John says it is the "last hour". How is it possible that a last hour could last 2000+ years? That is foolish and does a disservice to God's faithfulness and ability to convey time concepts to mankind. It was the "last hour" because these books were written right at the time when the signs Christ spoke of in the Olivet Discourse were unfolding. 64-65AD would have been the last hour of that generation.
(1st John 4:17) 17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
John would have have confidence because he would be alive to see it. Remember what Christ told Peter about John? He said:
(John 21:22) 22 Jesus said to him, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?
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(written 64 or 65 AD)
Before we venture into the writings of John, let me say that there are traditions and speculations that state that the books of 1st, 2nd and 3rd John, and the book of Revelation were not written till some time around 90-96AD (20-26 years after the destruction of Jerusalem). This may be tradition, and it may be believed by many people, but it is not my position. I believe that the topics in his epistles, and particular scriptures in Revelation help verify the books as being written sometime just before the siege of Jerusalem in 66AD. The epistles deal with similar topics that James, Peter, Paul, and Jude wrote about (the end time apostasy, the spirit of antichrist, and false teachers), and the book of Revelation itself even deals with the subject of the temple, which would not have been standing in 90-96AD. Therefore I believe that John's writings all fall in the time frame of around 66 AD. If you would like to study more on this subject there are a number of good books out there that help date the books of the Bible. One such book is, "The Development of the New Testament" by Arthur M. Ogden. Ogden does not write from a Preterist perspective. He never even mentions his eschatology. This, I feel, lends credibility to his positions. There are other books that deal with the subject, but Ogden does a good job validating the time of John's writings, as well as the other books of the New Testament.
(1st John 2:18) 18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
Up to this point we have read from other New Testament writers the term "last days". Now, John says it is the "last hour". How is it possible that a last hour could last 2000+ years? That is foolish and does a disservice to God's faithfulness and ability to convey time concepts to mankind. It was the "last hour" because these books were written right at the time when the signs Christ spoke of in the Olivet Discourse were unfolding. 64-65AD would have been the last hour of that generation.
(1st John 4:17) 17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
John would have have confidence because he would be alive to see it. Remember what Christ told Peter about John? He said:
(John 21:22) 22 Jesus said to him, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?
Re: The Epistles
John 21:23 The saying spread abroad among the brethren that this disciple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?"
What does that tell us about the expectations of Jesus' second coming, by those who were spreading the saying? They must not have been expecting a "soon" or "about-to-happen" coming.
What does that tell us about the expectations of Jesus' second coming, by those who were spreading the saying? They must not have been expecting a "soon" or "about-to-happen" coming.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Re: The Epistles
Really? After all the evidence shown so far - you really want to go there?Paidion wrote:John 21:23 The saying spread abroad among the brethren that this disciple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?"
What does that tell us about the expectations of Jesus' second coming, by those who were spreading the saying? They must not have been expecting a "soon" or "about-to-happen" coming.
Re: The Epistles
PrefaceTo Revelation
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Before I get into the book of Revelation this week, I want to focus your attention on a particular fact. The Olivet Discourse is recorded in the gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke, but there is no Olivet Discourse in the gospel of John. John gives us the Revelation, but Matthew Mark and Luke do not. If you look at the Olivet Discourse what do you see? You see death, pestilence, famine, disaster, the destruction of Jerusalem, judgment, and the gathering of the elect. What do we see in the book of Revelation? We see death, pestilence, famine, disaster, the destruction of Jerusalem, judgment, and the gathering of the elect. Because there are so many similarities in wording, and based on the dating of Revelation, it is my belief that the Book of Revelation is John's Olivet Discourse. I believe it was written in perhaps 66-67AD, and simply is much more comprehensive than the gospel narratives. It points to the events that would shortly come to pass. Remember, John said it was the "last hour" (1st John 2:18).
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Before I get into the book of Revelation this week, I want to focus your attention on a particular fact. The Olivet Discourse is recorded in the gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke, but there is no Olivet Discourse in the gospel of John. John gives us the Revelation, but Matthew Mark and Luke do not. If you look at the Olivet Discourse what do you see? You see death, pestilence, famine, disaster, the destruction of Jerusalem, judgment, and the gathering of the elect. What do we see in the book of Revelation? We see death, pestilence, famine, disaster, the destruction of Jerusalem, judgment, and the gathering of the elect. Because there are so many similarities in wording, and based on the dating of Revelation, it is my belief that the Book of Revelation is John's Olivet Discourse. I believe it was written in perhaps 66-67AD, and simply is much more comprehensive than the gospel narratives. It points to the events that would shortly come to pass. Remember, John said it was the "last hour" (1st John 2:18).
Re: The Epistles
The Book of Revelation
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(written 66-67 AD)
As stated earlier, before I get into the book of Revelation, I want to focus your attention on a particular fact. The Olivet Discourse is recorded in the gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke, but there is no Olivet Discourse in the gospel of John. John gives us the Revelation, but Matthew Mark and Luke do not. If you look at the Olivet Discourse what do you see? You see death, pestilence, famine, disaster, the destruction of Jerusalem, judgment, and the gathering of the elect. What do we see in the book of Revelation? We see death, pestilence, famine, disaster, the destruction of Jerusalem, judgment, and the gathering of the elect. Because there are so many similarities in wording, and based on the dating of Revelation, it is my belief that the Book of Revelation is John's Olivet Discourse. I believe it was written in perhaps 66-67AD, and simply is much more comprehensive than the gospel narratives. It points to the events that would shortly come to pass. Remember, John said it was the "last hour" (1st John 2:18).
(Revelation 1:1) 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,
In the New Testament of the New American Standard version of the Bible the word "soon" is used 15 times. In every instance it relates to an event that was to take place very quickly. In the New Testament of the King James "soon" is used 20 times, and again in every instance it means or implies something happening rapidly. The same is true for every version you can look up. There is no way, looking at how words are used repeatedly, that you can have a word mean something 15-20 times, and then have one lone example where the word "soon" could mean something that wouldn't happen for 2000+ years. This book was written, I believe, in 66-67AD and that is why Christ tells John that the events listed in Revelation were to happen soon. There is no way to tap dance around the meaning of soon. That would be like tap dancing around the meaning of "immediately".
(Revelation 1:3) 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.
(Revelation 1:10-11) 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet, 11 saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea."
Here we have audience relevance. The book of Revelation was an actual letter from John to the seven churches in Asia Minor. It is not a mystical open-ended letter written to any and all churches that have existed since then. Neither do the seven churches represent different church ages. They were real churches, and it was to them that the events of Revelation would "soon" happen.
(Revelation 1:9) 9 I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
(Revelation 2:25) 25 `Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come.
How would it be possible for the Christians in Thyatira to do this unless his coming was near enough for them to do it?
(Revelation 3:10) 10 `Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
(Revelation 6:15-17) 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; 16 and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"
Notice the wording in verse 16 above. It says that the people said, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;" Compare it to Luke 23:37
(Luke 23:27-30) 27 And following Him was a large crowd of the people, and of women who were mourning and lamenting Him. 28 But Jesus turning to them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, stop weeping for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 "For behold, the days are coming when they will say, `Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.' 30 "Then they will begin TO SAY TO THE MOUNTAINS, `FALL ON US,' AND TO THE HILLS, `COVER US.'
We have established the fulfillment of Luke 23:27-30 as 70AD. Revelation 6:16 applies to 70AD also.
(Revelation 11:1-2) 1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. 2 "Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.
In all of Revelation, there is not a single verse more powerful in explaining the time it was written (around 66AD), and that it speaks of the events of 70AD, than this verse. John is told to "get up and measure the temple of God", and that the temple and city would be trod under foot by the Gentiles for fourty-two months. For John to measure the temple points to the fact that this book was written prior to 70AD. If it were written after 70AD the temple would already have been destroyed. John is told to measure the temple, and then the nations would trample the holy city (Jerusalem) under foot for 42 months (3 ½ years). Did you know that the siege of Jerusalem lasted 42 months (3 ½ years)? It lasted from part of 66 AD to part of 70AD. Coincidence? Hardly!
(Revelation 11:18) 18 "And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."
This is the judgment that accompanies the second coming. It is the same wrath and judgment spoken of by Christ in the Olivet Discourse, to his disciples just prior to the transfiguration, and it's the same judgment spoken of by Daniel
(Daniel 12:1-2) 1 "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands {guard} over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. 2 " Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace {and} everlasting contempt.
We have seen that Christ said in Luke's Olivet Discourse that the destruction of Jerusalem and the vengeance exacted by God at that time would fulfill all things written, which would include Daniel, therefore if Daniel is fulfilled, then Revelation is fulfilled because these are speaking of the same judgments.
(Revelation 19:1-2) 1 After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God; 2 BECAUSE HIS JUDGMENTS ARE TRUE AND RIGHTEOUS; for He has judged the great harlot who was corrupting the earth with her immorality, and HE HAS AVENGED THE BLOOD OF HIS BOND-SERVANTS ON HER."
Who is the great harlot that was judged for the blood of the bond-servants? It was Jerusalem. Look at Matthew 23:34-38
(Matthew 23:34-38) 34 "Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. 37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
(Revelation 19: 7) 7 "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."
This is what those living saints and dead saints were looking for! Jerusalem, the Jewish nation, and the enemies of God have been judged and now "those who are alive and remain" witness first hand the marriage of the lamb to his saints. The dead saints are raised, and the living go to be with God forever. This was the hope of the Old Testament saints, and what was looked for by the New Testament saints.
(Revelation 21:1) 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
The first heaven and earth were physical Israel. The new heaven and earth are the church. He is not talking about a new physical creation. That's the problem the Jews had. They were looking for Messiah that would establish a physical kingdom. No! The kingdom of God does not come with observation. It is a spiritual kingdom that is within his people. They are the new heaven and earth. We don't need a physical place or a physical temple. He (Jesus/God) is our temple
(Revelation 21:22) 22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
(Revelation 21:27) 27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
(Revelation 22:15) 15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
The two above verses are very interesting because they help to substantiate the idea that the world continues on after the tribulation experienced in Revelation (and/or the Olivet Discourse). It shows a continuance of time, and a continuance of people who practice abomination and lying (sins). This verse shows that the kingdom has been established and that his people still live among sinners (like we do today). If Revelation meant that all sinners were already dispatched to hell and that they did not exist any more, then why this verse? He came a second time in the first century as a culmination of his sacrifice and to establish his kingdom. Believers, since his second coming, now live in that kingdom in a spiritual since. Yet we live in and around those who commit abominations. His kingdom is forever.
(Revelation 22:7) 7 "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book."
The word "quickly" is found 20 times in the New Testament of the New American Standard version of the Bible. Just like with the word "soon", "quickly" has the same meaning in every instance. It implies speed. Christ was telling the seven churches that he was coming quickly, and he meant it. You cannot make soon or quickly mean 2000+ years.
(Revelation 22:10) 10 And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.
(Revelation 22:12) 12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Compare to
(Matthew 16:27-28) "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. "Truly I say to you (the disciples), there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
Both Revelation 22:12 & Matthew 16:27-28 are speaking of the same coming and judgment. We have established that Matthew 16:27-28 occurred in the lifetime of some of the disciples. Therefore, and of necessity, Revelation 22:12 occurred in the lifetime of some of the disciples. Both would fall under "this generation".
(Revelation 22:20) 20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
See notes on 22:7 regarding the use of the word "quickly".
The fact that Christ prophesied the destruction of the temple and all of the tribulation that accompanied it, and the fact that history records that these events actually did happen just as he said, should cause us to celebrate and trust him even more in all areas. Lets choose to side with scripture and not get "Left Behind" in our eschatology.
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(written 66-67 AD)
As stated earlier, before I get into the book of Revelation, I want to focus your attention on a particular fact. The Olivet Discourse is recorded in the gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke, but there is no Olivet Discourse in the gospel of John. John gives us the Revelation, but Matthew Mark and Luke do not. If you look at the Olivet Discourse what do you see? You see death, pestilence, famine, disaster, the destruction of Jerusalem, judgment, and the gathering of the elect. What do we see in the book of Revelation? We see death, pestilence, famine, disaster, the destruction of Jerusalem, judgment, and the gathering of the elect. Because there are so many similarities in wording, and based on the dating of Revelation, it is my belief that the Book of Revelation is John's Olivet Discourse. I believe it was written in perhaps 66-67AD, and simply is much more comprehensive than the gospel narratives. It points to the events that would shortly come to pass. Remember, John said it was the "last hour" (1st John 2:18).
(Revelation 1:1) 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,
In the New Testament of the New American Standard version of the Bible the word "soon" is used 15 times. In every instance it relates to an event that was to take place very quickly. In the New Testament of the King James "soon" is used 20 times, and again in every instance it means or implies something happening rapidly. The same is true for every version you can look up. There is no way, looking at how words are used repeatedly, that you can have a word mean something 15-20 times, and then have one lone example where the word "soon" could mean something that wouldn't happen for 2000+ years. This book was written, I believe, in 66-67AD and that is why Christ tells John that the events listed in Revelation were to happen soon. There is no way to tap dance around the meaning of soon. That would be like tap dancing around the meaning of "immediately".
(Revelation 1:3) 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.
(Revelation 1:10-11) 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet, 11 saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea."
Here we have audience relevance. The book of Revelation was an actual letter from John to the seven churches in Asia Minor. It is not a mystical open-ended letter written to any and all churches that have existed since then. Neither do the seven churches represent different church ages. They were real churches, and it was to them that the events of Revelation would "soon" happen.
(Revelation 1:9) 9 I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
(Revelation 2:25) 25 `Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come.
How would it be possible for the Christians in Thyatira to do this unless his coming was near enough for them to do it?
(Revelation 3:10) 10 `Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
(Revelation 6:15-17) 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; 16 and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"
Notice the wording in verse 16 above. It says that the people said, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb;" Compare it to Luke 23:37
(Luke 23:27-30) 27 And following Him was a large crowd of the people, and of women who were mourning and lamenting Him. 28 But Jesus turning to them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, stop weeping for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 "For behold, the days are coming when they will say, `Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.' 30 "Then they will begin TO SAY TO THE MOUNTAINS, `FALL ON US,' AND TO THE HILLS, `COVER US.'
We have established the fulfillment of Luke 23:27-30 as 70AD. Revelation 6:16 applies to 70AD also.
(Revelation 11:1-2) 1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. 2 "Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.
In all of Revelation, there is not a single verse more powerful in explaining the time it was written (around 66AD), and that it speaks of the events of 70AD, than this verse. John is told to "get up and measure the temple of God", and that the temple and city would be trod under foot by the Gentiles for fourty-two months. For John to measure the temple points to the fact that this book was written prior to 70AD. If it were written after 70AD the temple would already have been destroyed. John is told to measure the temple, and then the nations would trample the holy city (Jerusalem) under foot for 42 months (3 ½ years). Did you know that the siege of Jerusalem lasted 42 months (3 ½ years)? It lasted from part of 66 AD to part of 70AD. Coincidence? Hardly!
(Revelation 11:18) 18 "And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."
This is the judgment that accompanies the second coming. It is the same wrath and judgment spoken of by Christ in the Olivet Discourse, to his disciples just prior to the transfiguration, and it's the same judgment spoken of by Daniel
(Daniel 12:1-2) 1 "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands {guard} over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. 2 " Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace {and} everlasting contempt.
We have seen that Christ said in Luke's Olivet Discourse that the destruction of Jerusalem and the vengeance exacted by God at that time would fulfill all things written, which would include Daniel, therefore if Daniel is fulfilled, then Revelation is fulfilled because these are speaking of the same judgments.
(Revelation 19:1-2) 1 After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God; 2 BECAUSE HIS JUDGMENTS ARE TRUE AND RIGHTEOUS; for He has judged the great harlot who was corrupting the earth with her immorality, and HE HAS AVENGED THE BLOOD OF HIS BOND-SERVANTS ON HER."
Who is the great harlot that was judged for the blood of the bond-servants? It was Jerusalem. Look at Matthew 23:34-38
(Matthew 23:34-38) 34 "Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. 37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. 38 "Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
(Revelation 19: 7) 7 "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."
This is what those living saints and dead saints were looking for! Jerusalem, the Jewish nation, and the enemies of God have been judged and now "those who are alive and remain" witness first hand the marriage of the lamb to his saints. The dead saints are raised, and the living go to be with God forever. This was the hope of the Old Testament saints, and what was looked for by the New Testament saints.
(Revelation 21:1) 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
The first heaven and earth were physical Israel. The new heaven and earth are the church. He is not talking about a new physical creation. That's the problem the Jews had. They were looking for Messiah that would establish a physical kingdom. No! The kingdom of God does not come with observation. It is a spiritual kingdom that is within his people. They are the new heaven and earth. We don't need a physical place or a physical temple. He (Jesus/God) is our temple
(Revelation 21:22) 22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
(Revelation 21:27) 27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
(Revelation 22:15) 15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
The two above verses are very interesting because they help to substantiate the idea that the world continues on after the tribulation experienced in Revelation (and/or the Olivet Discourse). It shows a continuance of time, and a continuance of people who practice abomination and lying (sins). This verse shows that the kingdom has been established and that his people still live among sinners (like we do today). If Revelation meant that all sinners were already dispatched to hell and that they did not exist any more, then why this verse? He came a second time in the first century as a culmination of his sacrifice and to establish his kingdom. Believers, since his second coming, now live in that kingdom in a spiritual since. Yet we live in and around those who commit abominations. His kingdom is forever.
(Revelation 22:7) 7 "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book."
The word "quickly" is found 20 times in the New Testament of the New American Standard version of the Bible. Just like with the word "soon", "quickly" has the same meaning in every instance. It implies speed. Christ was telling the seven churches that he was coming quickly, and he meant it. You cannot make soon or quickly mean 2000+ years.
(Revelation 22:10) 10 And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.
(Revelation 22:12) 12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Compare to
(Matthew 16:27-28) "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. "Truly I say to you (the disciples), there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
Both Revelation 22:12 & Matthew 16:27-28 are speaking of the same coming and judgment. We have established that Matthew 16:27-28 occurred in the lifetime of some of the disciples. Therefore, and of necessity, Revelation 22:12 occurred in the lifetime of some of the disciples. Both would fall under "this generation".
(Revelation 22:20) 20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
See notes on 22:7 regarding the use of the word "quickly".
The fact that Christ prophesied the destruction of the temple and all of the tribulation that accompanied it, and the fact that history records that these events actually did happen just as he said, should cause us to celebrate and trust him even more in all areas. Lets choose to side with scripture and not get "Left Behind" in our eschatology.