PRETERIST---->PRE-MILLENIAL

[Guest]

i guess to me the whole topic of eschatology is rather unimportant in the way we should live our daily christian lives but we seem to spend tons of time on it.

dont get me wrong, i think the topic is extremely interesting. and steve g, mike, etc have all caused me to drastically re-think my previously held "left behind" views. but sometimes i wonder if Jesus is shaking his head at us as if to say "why dont you all move on to something really important?

i mean, if my eschatology is wrong, oh well. if mike's is wrong, big deal. if ely's is wrong, so what. if jim's is wrong, that's the breaks. but if we fail to love those around us, or care for those less fortunate, or allow the devil to cause us to backslide, God have mercy on us.

TK

Is it loving your brother to let him continue in error? or Is truth important?

[Guest]

i guess to me the whole topic of eschatology is rather unimportant in the way we should live our daily christian lives but we seem to spend tons of time on it.

I think I understand you, TK. Yet there is perhaps a closer relationship between eschatology and the life of a disciple than is appararent at first blush.

The post-trib futurist believes that it is possible that he will have to endure suffering or die in the tribulation at the hands of the Antichrist (beast) who is to come.

The pre-trib futurist believes there is no possibility of his suffering in the tribulation period, since he will be raptured before that period begins.

The amillenialist and the post-millenialist believe the tribulation period, is symbolic, or if not, has already occurred. So there is not possibility that they will have to suffer in it.

Suppose the post-trib futurist is correct. Who will be best prepared to face that difficult period in which the whole world system will persecute the disciples of Christ?

[Guest]

i agree, paidion, but it seems we should all be living as Jesus commanded, w/o regard to our eschatological position.
________________

no, mike, we shouldnt let people persist in error. i didnt mean to imply that. you are doing a good job of supporting the preterist position. i am still not convinced you are 100% correct. perhaps someday i will be.

TK

[Guest]

i guess to me the whole topic of eschatology is rather unimportant in the way we should live our daily christian lives but we seem to spend tons of time on it.

I think I understand you, TK. Yet there is perhaps a closer relationship between eschatology and the life of a disciple than is appararent at first blush.

The post-trib futurist believes that it is possible that he will have to endure suffering or die in the tribulation at the hands of the Antichrist (beast) who is to come.

The pre-trib futurist believes there is no possibility of his suffering in the tribulation period, since he will be raptured before that period begins.

The amillenialist and the post-millenialist believe the tribulation period, is symbolic, or if not, has already occurred. So there is not possibility that they will have to suffer in it.

Suppose the post-trib futurist is correct. Who will be best prepared to face that difficult period in which the whole world system will persecute the disciples of Christ?

Hi Paidion,
What do you suppose that post-trib futurists actually do to get prepared to face the difficult period of persecution at the hands of the Antichrist? Do you suppose that any of the saints living now in terrible circumstances of persecution were likewise prepared to endure their suffering?

[Guest]

TK wrote

but if we fail to love those around us, or care for those less fortunate, or allow the devil to cause us to backslide, God have mercy on us.

Last night I was at a Bible study where a middle aged man had just returned to the Lord about 6 weeks ago. There was also a young lady, barely out of her teens, who was living on the street just over a year ago. She ended up marrying a young fellow, who was also there, shortly after they became Christians under a year ago. To hear their enthusiasm for Christ was amazing.

Our subject last night was along the lines of what TK was mentioning. It was based on Galatians 6:2...fulfilling Christ's law to love one another.

I agree with TK....eschatology is not one the primary things to be concerned about in the Christian life. We discussed a lot of things last night but I would never dream of bringing up this issue with new Christians because it's clearly, to me, not a core issue. If the subject did get raised I would have downplayed its importance.

PMike wrote

Is it loving your brother to let him continue in error? or Is truth important?

This is assuming that any one of us has cornered the truth on this somewhat cryptic issue. I think knowing the place where this issue belongs in the Christian life is important as well.

Steve Gregg has mentioned a number of times that he recognizes the relative importance of the issue (there are many things more important). Ironically, his sound perspective made me comfortable listening to him and spurred my interest in the subject.

[Guest]

Michelle:

What do you suppose that post-trib futurists actually do to get prepared to face the difficult period of persecution at the hands of the Antichrist? Do you suppose that any of the saints living now in terrible circumstances of persecution were likewise prepared to endure their suffering?

Yes, I know that many of the saints now living under terrible persecution are mentally prepared. They were acquainted with others who had suffered prior to their suffering, so that they knew to some degree what to expect.

First century Christians also were quite aware that they might to thrown to the lions or burnt at stake. They were better able to accept it when their turn came. Some of them even chose to be martyred, believing that they were bearing the ultimate witness for their Lord.

In the seventeenth century anabaptists were mentally prepared for the same reasons. They were persecuted the Catholic, Reformed, and Lutheran churches.

For similar reasons, I think that the post-trib futurists are mentally prepared for the possibility of persecution. Those of the other positions I mentioned will be taken by surprise.

[Guest]

OK, so how does one become mentally prepared? Does just expecting the worst do the trick? And being caught by surprise leads to what... speechless astonishment? Embarrassing weeping and wailing? Perhaps greater temptation to deny Christ?

I guess what I'm getting at is that I believe that centering our thoughts on possible, or even probable, persecution or tribulation isn't what we've been taught to do. I also believe that we, as Christians, should be prepared for difficult times, even martyrdom, by being totally dependent upon the Lord, even for our very lives. In that I don't see that a person's eschatological views make any difference.

[Guest]

HEY TK........regarding this idea of eschatology and its importance. I agree with you and some of the others.......about what may be most important, e.g. Love for our neighbor. Absolutely.

BUT, one thing i havent heard yet which i think is very important to this, is how eschatology can affect how one acts.....i.e. toward the environment, socially, false hopes or teachings (which can lead to bad decisions, acts), preparing for your future, etc.

I know this may sound really dumb, but many years ago, my friends and i lived with NO concern regarding our future, i.e. savings accounts, investments , even educational future, etc.

This attitude stemmed from being continually taught that the rapture was pretty close, "just look at the newspaper". YES, it was a big dispensational movement here in so cal. Maybe naive, but consistent with dispensational teaching.

BUT TK, eschatology really does matter as far as how one would logically act. If the world or part of it is gonna be destroyed, there is no good reason to bother trying to keep the planet in good shape. But, if the plantet is not going to be destroyed, then we have many good reasons for taking care of our environment.

If the world is gonna end soon, there is no good reason to bother with long term social gospel acts for other christians in the third world.......they are gonna get raptured with us!
But, if not, then we have good reasons to help those.

NOW, some will respond that we should do good things cuz God says so. I dont disagree, but sometimes that answer is too simplistic and not intellectually satisfying when there are objections to acting so from common sense, as per the examples above.

jimd

[Guest]

The amillenialist and the post-millenialist believe the tribulation period, is symbolic, or if not, has already occurred. So there is not possibility that they will have to suffer in it.

As an amillenialist, I do believe there will be a time of tribulation before the second coming. I don't know this for sure, but I believe this is what is described in Revelation 20 verses 7-9. Not all amillenialist see it this way, but there are certainly those who do. We don't however, see a future tribulation as what Jesus was describing in Matthew 24.

It seems that there are few who could say no tribulation occurs, where believers are martyred. This has been the norm throughout most of history.

[Guest]

What tribulation could be worse for Christians then living under Stalin or Hitler or Mao or Pol Pot or even today under Kim Jung Ill? Or living in Africa in the Sudan where the muslim regime crucifies Pastors.
I don't know if any of us have a clue including me.