The Epistles

[Mellontes]

because they were being deceived by false teachers. It WILL be an earth burning , cataclysmic experience, but they were deceived into forgetting that part.

TK

TK,

Would you mind horribly if I asked you to provide Scriptures you use to represent the second appearing as an "earth burning, cataclysmic experience"? I find that so often people state or assert things that they assume to be part of the Scriptural record when in fact tiny additions are made into paraphrases. I am not saying you are doing this! I am just requesting Scripture so that there is a point of reference to proceed from. It would be just as pointless to say "According to Isaiah the Martians landed." I wouldn't expect people to have to read the entire book of Isaiah just to prove me wrong. Let alone statements that could refer to either the OT or NT...

Thanks, Mellontes

[RV]

Hi TK,

I'd also like to add one other thought.

And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them. (Luke 21:8)

Allyn has already done the work showing how they (authors of N.T.), said the time was near. If the time wasn't near and they were claiming it was, Jesus said not to follow them.

If the time wasn't near, we've got a problem. We probably shouldn't be following them.

[Allyn]

Where this thread is headed:

So far a short review of many of the epistles have been given. What I have left to do is to deal with the few remaining books of the NT and draw the proper conclusion. I will also point out a few relevent Scripture passages from the OT.

The books left to review are as follows and in the order of their writing:

COLOSSIANS, HEBREWS, 1st PETER, TITUS, 1st TIMOTHY, 2nd PETER, JUDE, 2nd TIMOTHY, 1st JOHN and REVELATION.

Then I will go to other Scriptures briefly and then a conclusion. Iwill also present a Preterist timeline which I believe will be beneficial to the reader.

[RV]

Thanks for the work Allyn, please continue.

[Allyn]

The Book of Colossians

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(written 63 AD+/-)

(Colossians 2:17) 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

"Come" in this verse is the Greek word "mello" or "about to come".

(Colossians 3:4) 4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

[Allyn]

The Book of Hebrews

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(written 63 AD)

(Hebrews 1:1-2) 1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

The book of Hebrews is an epistle written to Jews (or Hebrews) specifically. That is why when you see "the last days" it again refers to the last days of the Jewish nation, not planet earth.

(Hebrews 9:26-28) 26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

(Hebrews 10:1) 1 For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.

"Come" in verse 10 is the Greek word "mello", or "a shadow of the good things about to come".

(Hebrews 10:25) 25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

(Hebrews 10:37) 37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.

I do not think scripture could be any clearer than this. It is now 63AD. You are a Jew and you receive this epistle. You know that Jesus has prophesied that your generation will not all pass away before His second coming, and the destruction of the temple. You read "for yet a very little while". What would you have understood that to mean? Would you have thought it meant 2000+ years? No. You would have understood it to mean just what it says that Christ's promised coming was imminent to you and your generation. Considering that the temple was destroyed just a few years later, and Jesus tied his coming to this destruction, you can see why the writer said "for yet a very little while", and Christ did come.

(Hebrews 13:14) 14 For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come.

"Come" is the Greek word "mello", or "the city which is about to come". Also notice the writer's eternal emphasis on a place not physical. He's not looking for a physical kingdom to be established here. He's looking, like Abraham, for the city of God elsewhere.

[Allyn]

The Book of 1st Peter

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(64 Ad)

(1st Peter 1:5-7) 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials, 7 so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

(1st Peter 1:13) 13 Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

(1st Peter 4:7) 7 The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.

Can you see the imminence here? It's 64AD and the destruction of Jerusalem, the end of all Old Covenant things, is right there. It is "near", or "yet a very little while".

(1st Peter 4:13) 13 but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation.

(1st Peter 4:17) 17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

(1st Peter 5:1) 1 Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed,

[Allyn]

The Book of Titus

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(64 AD)

(Titus 2:11-13) 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

[Allyn]

The Book of 1st Timothy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(64 Ad)

(1st Timothy 4:1) 1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

(1st Timothy 6:13-15) 13 I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, 14 that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which He will bring about at the proper time--He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, The "proper time", as mentioned in verse 15, was the time that corresponded with the destruction of Jerusalem.

[RV]

I'm wondering how anyone can expect a conversation to happen on these full-preterist threads. Verses are quoted and we are "told" what they mean....

Hi Rick... there are other threads where those conversations are happening. I believe Allyn said what the purpose of this thread was.

But... look Rick, here is what is going on in other threads:

it is obvious that you have spent a good amount of time developing your preterist thought, and i suppose that is a good thing. there's not much i can argue, because obviously you have confronted every possible argument.

but regardless of what you say, i still believe Jesus is coming again(in the future). Like the old song says, "may be morning, may be noon, may be evening and maybe soon."

If my position is wrong it is up to every blood-bought Christian to show me from the Scriptures why I am wrong.

This conversation can be found on: "The Book of Matthew" thread.

This is typically the ending point to all conversations I've observed with the Full-Preterist.

The Full-Preterist presents a well thought out argument, and those that disagree, simply disagree without any substantial evidence.

Go back to the old thread and look what happens everytime psychohmike says something.

I'm sorry, but simply stating someone is wrong doesn't make it true.

Please... someone start a thread proving Full-Preterist are false once and for all.