Steve given your attitude maybe you should step down...seriously...you yourself said you really have no time for this ministry. After the tounge lashing youve tried to give me I wonder about your heart in this whole thing. Its no wonder people with other views are afraid to come here...does this describe you my friend ??????
"Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer,[a] he desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap. "
2nd Timothy 1:3
Crusader
"Until the TIMES of the Gentiles shall be fulfilled.&qu
I too am sorry about your dog Crusader. It just so happens our little 9 year old peak suddenly died this afternoon from heart failure. My 19 year old daughter is so sad and weepy. I know how you must feel.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
This is Steve
Yes I would say this is Steve. I don't know him as one pressing the flesh of another but I see his spirit and I like it. We are definitely all individuals with different issues and . yes, baggage but I think we are command to overcome our shortcomings no matter who we are. I myself could use an extra dose of humility most of the time."Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer,[a] he desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap. "
Now personally I am tired of this analyizing of each other back and forth. May I be so bold to say as a member only; "As far as it depends on you, be at peace with one another"
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Hi
Allyn sorry to hear that. Its a hard thing to go through ,especially suddenly and unexpected. Many people miss God at times like these because they feel He doesnt care about what we consider the smaller things in life,after all Hes busy taking care of the really big issues. But if we avail ourselves to being receptive He will comfort us over the most smallest of details...and why.. because He's a God that cares more than we can understand or comprehend. The worst thing someone can say to a grieivng person is " Oh I understand how you feel" when really we dont have a clue...but God does. Its at times like these when the Holy Spirit strenthgens us and even prays for us. I can look back over my 34 years in Jesus and specifically remember the times that He ministered to even my smallest needs...I will pray for your daughter and your family. I can sense in your words a careing and Im sure your daughter is being strenthened through you...sometimes all we ca do is be there and let the other person know we care also.... On steve and I butting heads its o.k...I can dish it out and take it and so can he,he's a big boy...I knew him years and years ago..in a time far away...
Crusader
Crusader
Last edited by Jill on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
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Reason:
Thanks for your kind words Crusader.
I don't know about Steve, nor do I know about you, but I once was lost but now I am found. My past is never to be dredged up by me nor my foe. I am forgiven and I am heaven bound. No one has control over me but Christ.
I don't know about Steve, nor do I know about you, but I once was lost but now I am found. My past is never to be dredged up by me nor my foe. I am forgiven and I am heaven bound. No one has control over me but Christ.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Re: Hi
If this is wrong, then why do you make "digs" at people?Crusader wrote:He doesnt make the kind of comments and digs that others have. It seems people are trying to get me to get mad or say something rash...and Im not going to.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. (John 13:35)
Re: Hi
Can you explain this scripture to me?Crusader wrote:I am glad weve been grafted in Sean Im sure you are also...but we havent replaced the root...What you have is commonly and rightly called replacement theology.
Looking for the Blessed hope
Crusader
Eph 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
I just don't get how you can say my belief is that Israel is replaced by the Church. Not only have I stated otherwise, I give you this quote from Paul. It says that Gentiles are members with Israel as one body, as in the body of Christ. Also known as the Church.
What do you make of this passage? No replacement theology here.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. (John 13:35)
Hi
Sean wrote
"The Church of Jesus Christ is Israel, comprised of not only Jews but also
Gentiles. The building is the same one descrbed in Revelation 21. The
passage is clear. Is God going to put the dividing wall back up? "
Here you say that the Church is Israel and I find that interesting Sean but
lets consider what Paul said in Romans 11 25:32
"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may
not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full
number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it
is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."[g]
28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but
as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the
patriarchs, 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you
who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result
of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order
that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you.
32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy
on them all.
If we are Israel as you claim then your perceptions need further scrutiny.
If we are Israel then why would God harden part of the Body
of Christ? For they are being hardened even now according to this passage.
Paul also distinguishes between Israel and the gentiles coming in ( the
Church, also haveing some believing Jews) which should be proof enough there
are two distinct groups. His reference to the Gentiles coming in refers to
what Sean,clearly its a reference to gentiles getting saved.So at least
according to Paul, Israel exists and the Gentiles coming in exist .Notice
that Paul said Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the fullness
of the gentiles comes in.Last time I looked gentiles were still coming into
the Church..the body of Christ,so this condition still exists today.
As far as this scripture,
"Eph 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs
together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in
the promise in Christ Jesus. "
Rather than pull one Scripture out of context...lets look at the ones its
found around. "For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for
the sake of you Gentiles— 2Surely you have heard about the administration
of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3that is, the mystery made
known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4In reading
this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of
Christ, 5which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now
been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets. 6This
mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with
Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in
Christ Jesus. 7I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God's grace
given me through the working of his power. 8Although I am less than the
least of all God's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the
Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9and to make plain to everyone
the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in
God, who created all things.
This fits right along with the same thing Paul is saying in passage in
Romans above...he even uses mystery in both pasages. Whats the mystery Sean? It simply says we are hiers together with
Israel to the promises by the same New Covenant that Ive gone over and over
with you in Jeremiah 31. Its the Gospel Sean...and Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel
37 speak of it applying to Israel. The Bible nowhere says that Israel has
been done away with,nor does it say that God has forsaken Israel and it
definetly doesnt say that Israel is the Church....there are three seperate
groups spoken of in Scripture,,,Israel,unbelieving gentiles and believing
Jews and gentiles called the Church....getting them confused makes
eschatolgy very confusing...If you focus on what the mystery is you may find these two passages easier to understand Sean.
Crusader
"The Church of Jesus Christ is Israel, comprised of not only Jews but also
Gentiles. The building is the same one descrbed in Revelation 21. The
passage is clear. Is God going to put the dividing wall back up? "
Here you say that the Church is Israel and I find that interesting Sean but
lets consider what Paul said in Romans 11 25:32
"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may
not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full
number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it
is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."[g]
28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but
as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the
patriarchs, 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you
who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result
of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order
that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you.
32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy
on them all.
If we are Israel as you claim then your perceptions need further scrutiny.
If we are Israel then why would God harden part of the Body
of Christ? For they are being hardened even now according to this passage.
Paul also distinguishes between Israel and the gentiles coming in ( the
Church, also haveing some believing Jews) which should be proof enough there
are two distinct groups. His reference to the Gentiles coming in refers to
what Sean,clearly its a reference to gentiles getting saved.So at least
according to Paul, Israel exists and the Gentiles coming in exist .Notice
that Paul said Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the fullness
of the gentiles comes in.Last time I looked gentiles were still coming into
the Church..the body of Christ,so this condition still exists today.
As far as this scripture,
"Eph 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs
together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in
the promise in Christ Jesus. "
Rather than pull one Scripture out of context...lets look at the ones its
found around. "For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for
the sake of you Gentiles— 2Surely you have heard about the administration
of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3that is, the mystery made
known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4In reading
this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of
Christ, 5which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now
been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets. 6This
mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with
Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in
Christ Jesus. 7I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God's grace
given me through the working of his power. 8Although I am less than the
least of all God's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the
Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9and to make plain to everyone
the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in
God, who created all things.
This fits right along with the same thing Paul is saying in passage in
Romans above...he even uses mystery in both pasages. Whats the mystery Sean? It simply says we are hiers together with
Israel to the promises by the same New Covenant that Ive gone over and over
with you in Jeremiah 31. Its the Gospel Sean...and Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel
37 speak of it applying to Israel. The Bible nowhere says that Israel has
been done away with,nor does it say that God has forsaken Israel and it
definetly doesnt say that Israel is the Church....there are three seperate
groups spoken of in Scripture,,,Israel,unbelieving gentiles and believing
Jews and gentiles called the Church....getting them confused makes
eschatolgy very confusing...If you focus on what the mystery is you may find these two passages easier to understand Sean.
Crusader
Last edited by Jill on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Crusader you quoted:
Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full
number of the Gentiles has come in.
The passage seems to say that the Gentiles are coming into Israel
But you also said:
Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full
number of the Gentiles has come in.
The passage seems to say that the Gentiles are coming into Israel
But you also said:
So... are the gentiles coming into natural Christ-rejecting Israel. Or are they coming into the True Israel, the Israel of God?There are three seperate groups spoken of in Scripture,,,Israel,unbelieving gentiles and believing
Jews and gentiles called the Church....getting them confused makes
eschatolgy very confusing...
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm, edited 0 times in total.
Reason:
Reason:
Paidion
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald
Avatar --- Age 45
"Not one soul will ever be redeemed from hell but by being saved from his sins, from the evil in him." --- George MacDonald