And this is how we know it is the last hour!!!

Post by **_psychohmike** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:57 pm

OK...So I was asked recently about the term anti-christ and its use in the New Testament. And in looking a little further into it, I came across something and was wondering if anyone else had ever made this observation/connection before.

In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul reminds the believers that had thought that the day of Christ had already come, that there were a couple of things that had to happen first. A falling away...and the manifestation of the "man of sin."

And then some years later, the apostle John, in 1 John 2 says something I never quite saw before. He makes a claim..."Liittle children, it is the last hour." And then to justify his claim it would appear that he is saying what Paul was speaking of in 2 Thessalonians 2 had taken place. And this is, "how we know that it is the last hour."

So...Just to recap. 1 John 2:18-19 says that a falling away had taken place and the antichrist had been manifested. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 says that the day of Christ would not come unless the falling away come first and the manifestation of the man of sin(anti-christ).

If John said that what Paul was speaking about as future is something that was past from his perspective...Do we still look for it to somehow be fulfilled in our future?

Pmike

Post by **_Paidion** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:00 pm

If the "day of Christ" has occurred (Between the time Paul wrote and the time John wrote) it doesn't seem to make much difference. Nobody noticed it.

Post by **_psychohmike** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:34 pm

Try reading my post again Pai...I didn't say that it had occurred.

Paidion wrote:If the "day of Christ" has occurred (Between the time Paul wrote and the time John wrote) it doesn't seem to make much difference. Nobody noticed it.

Post by **_Paidion** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:51 pm

Well, I read it again, and did not receive any further enlightenment.

I still read the something that was future to Paul was in the past from John's perspective. If it was not the day of Christ, what was it? The apostasy? And if so who was apostasizing, when, and from what?

Post by **_psychohmike** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:34 am

Ok...The Thessalonians were somehow under the impression that the day of the Christ had already come. Paul says...No, the day of Christ cannot come unless the man of sin is revealed and a falling away takes place.

Some years later John says that the man of sin had been revealed and that a falling away had taken place. And then sites them as evidence to support his claim that it is "the last hour."

And so what I am getting at is that from the perspective of John, nothing else had to happen before the day of Christ come. In other words...It couldn't get any closer because what Paul said had to happen first...Has happened. Which is why he said that it was, "the last hour."

And so the point I am trying to make is this. Many futurists today would have you believe that the revealing of the man of sin and the falling away is still future to us. Yet John says that it is something that had happened from his perspective.

So do we still look forward to something that John says is past???

Pmike

Post by _ » Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:02 am

18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

Psychomike:

1 John 2:18 actually still puts the antichrist's coming in the future. It puts the coming of precursors of the antichrist as already present.

I agree with you that John saying it's the final hour probably does indicate that the antichrist would be manifested very shortly (IMO, during the Jewish revolt), but I don't think this text puts anything as past, except perhaps a "falling away" (depending on how you define that).

You know (I'm thinking out loud here and writing as I go...) it IS quite significant that John does seem to be arguing that the falling away has already occurred here. Quite interesting. But I would take it that he's saying that the hour is pregnant for the appearance of the man of sin, not that he had already come.

Post by **_psychohmike** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:48 am

I appreciate your response...I'm glad that I'm not the only one that sees it.

Pmike

anochria wrote:
18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
Psychomike:

1 John 2:18 actually still puts the antichrist's coming in the future. It puts the coming of precursors of the antichrist as already present.

I agree with you that John saying it's the final hour probably does indicate that the antichrist would be manifested very shortly (IMO, during the Jewish revolt), but I don't think this text puts anything as past, except perhaps a "falling away" (depending on how you define that).

You know (I'm thinking out loud here and writing as I go...) it IS quite significant that John does seem to be arguing that the falling away has already occurred here. Quite interesting. But I would take it that he's saying that the hour is pregnant for the appearance of the man of sin, not that he had already come.