Is Church Polity Relevant Post Apostolic Era?

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robbyyoung
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Is Church Polity Relevant Post Apostolic Era?

Post by robbyyoung » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:31 am

Hello All and God Bless,

Holding to the Full Preterist view, I contend, by the evidence, that post - The Apostolic Era, church polity ended. Revelation 21:3 gives us the end all concerning what believers are to expect after Christ's return. For the past 2000 years I believe, as individuals, we promote righteousness on the earth as God leads us. The absolute quagmire men instituted past it's relevance is self evident post 70 A.D.

Therefore, I'm open for correction if scripture can be used to prove church polity is still relevant today.

God Bless.
Last edited by robbyyoung on Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jriccitelli
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Re: Is Church Polity Relevant Post 70 A.D.?

Post by jriccitelli » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:25 am

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away”
We still have the same old earth and Heaven / there are still Gentiles / I do not see a New Jerusalem, certainly not one that came down out of heaven / I have not heard of or seen anything of the wedding, or the marriage feast of the Bride and the Lamb / I don't 'see' God Himself here, do you?? / I still see tears, I still see funerals, I still see mourning, I still feel pain...

I will believe it when the Pope is thrown off his high chair and all the false teachers and preachers are given a boot and thrown in the sea.

steve7150
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Re: Is Church Polity Relevant Post 70 A.D.?

Post by steve7150 » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:11 pm

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away”









Full Preterism will say, no it's not a new heaven and earth, it's really a New Covenant, can't you see it?

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robbyyoung
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Re: Is Church Polity Relevant Post 70 A.D.?

Post by robbyyoung » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:33 pm

jriccitelli wrote:"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away”
We still have the same old earth and Heaven / there are still Gentiles / I do not see a New Jerusalem, certainly not one that came down out of heaven / I have not heard of or seen anything of the wedding, or the marriage feast of the Bride and the Lamb / I don't 'see' God Himself here, do you?? / I still see tears, I still see funerals, I still see mourning, I still feel pain...

I will believe it when the Pope is thrown off his high chair and all the false teachers and preachers are given a boot and thrown in the sea.
Hi JR,

The Revelation of Yeshua and "The Prophecy" derived from it pertains to it's 1st Century audience:

Rev 22:6 And he said to me, 'These words are stedfast and true, and the Lord God of the holy prophets did send His messenger to shew to His servants the things that it behoveth to come quickly:

Rev 22:7 Lo, I come quickly; happy is he who is keeping the words of the prophecy of this scroll.

Rev 22:20 he saith -- who is testifying these things -- 'Yes, I come quickly!' Amen! Yes, be coming, Lord Jesus!

Emphasis on Yeshua's words!

Nevertheless, whatever anything has to do with this prophecy, it WILL NOT exceed that generation. So I contend that church polity must be irrelevant, post Apostolic Era.

God Bless.

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jriccitelli
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Re: Is Church Polity Relevant Post 70 A.D.?

Post by jriccitelli » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:37 pm

True 7150, that means if the spiritual reality of the words are only spiritual, and thus it is all fulfilled, then none of it will be fulfilled physically :(

Robby even in the context of the words repeated here from the OT, the Messiah was still along way off. Our preparation is to be ready today, for we have know our time here is short, that is biblical. Are you meaning church leadership and ecclesiology? If that is true, we may agree it needs adjustment, but it is yet a theocracy, unless you live in Rome, but only if Christ were here would the Earth have a true Theocracy.

Robby, I guess you see God on His throne, as being in your heart? That would be good!

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Re: Is Church Polity Relevant Post 70 A.D.?

Post by robbyyoung » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:28 am

jriccitelli wrote:Robby even in the context of the words repeated here from the OT, the Messiah was still along way off.
Hi JR, - It's a messianic prophecy and it was APPLIED to the audience of the 1st Century. Specifically, in the revelation of Yeshua to seven churches of Asia. This is unequivocally how we know what APPLIES to us or not. The prophets or messengers tell us. WE don't get to make that determination or else you get churchianity on steroids, full of division.

jriccitelli wrote:Our preparation is to be ready today, for we have know our time here is short, that is biblical.
If you are referring to Matt 24:44, and elsewhere, this has nothing to do with us. This is talking about The Parousia and close of the Old Covenant Age, resulting in God's wrath being poured out on the unbelieving Jews. Post 70 A.D., all we need to be ready for is standing before God when our time has expired here on earth.
jriccitelli wrote:Are you meaning church leadership and ecclesiology? If that is true, we may agree it needs adjustment, but it is yet a theocracy, unless you live in Rome, but only if Christ were here would the Earth have a true Theocracy.
I mean anything that had to do with building up the church to its full measure or maturity before the end of the age came. That was fundamentally why it existed, to usher in the New Covenant. The Church did an outstanding job and was throughly rewarded as promised.
jriccitelli wrote:Robby, I guess you see God on His throne, as being in your heart? That would be good!
Yes, JR. I believe its been this way for 2000 years now. The so-called church polity today couldn't be anymore divided if they tried. Its embarrassing, hypocritical, and sinful. But I believe it's all irrelevant in the first place. Believers who assemble together without the polity is something altogether different and warranted.

God Bless

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Re: Is Church Polity Relevant Post Apostolic Era?

Post by jriccitelli » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:23 pm

The Apostolic Era, church polity ended. Revelation 21:3 gives us the end all concerning what believers are to expect after Christ's return.(Robby)
'And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them' (Rev 20:3)
I still don't get it. The verse and context you quoted seems to be when God is truly ruling from His throne. And so we would expect to see and have God ruling 'now', right? But I do not see God (or see His Glory or rule) or His throne. And certainly the world is run by idiots and politicians right now.

Are you saying that Christ or God, is ruling earth right now, and we just cannot observe it, or is it discerned only spiritually?

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Re: Is Church Polity Relevant Post Apostolic Era?

Post by steve7150 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:52 pm

Are you saying that Christ or God, is ruling earth right now, and we just cannot observe it, or is it discerned only spiritually?
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Yes i believe FP believes this. Also other spiritual things like resurrections in 70AD, judgment in 70AD. Basically whatever isn't discernable was fulfilled spiritually by 70AD. A position that is nether provable or unprovable.

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Re: Is Church Polity Relevant Post Apostolic Era?

Post by robbyyoung » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:34 pm

jriccitelli wrote:
The Apostolic Era, church polity ended. Revelation 21:3 gives us the end all concerning what believers are to expect after Christ's return.(Robby)
'And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them' (Rev 20:3)
I still don't get it. The verse and context you quoted seems to be when God is truly ruling from His throne. And so we would expect to see and have God ruling 'now', right? But I do not see God (or see His Glory or rule) or His throne. And certainly the world is run by idiots and politicians right now.

Are you saying that Christ or God, is ruling earth right now, and we just cannot observe it, or is it discerned only spiritually?
Hi JR,

First, God never DID NOT rule supreme, I'm certain you can agree to this. However, we are speaking about ruling from "The New Covenant" perspective, in which, Yeshua said quite plainly - 'This Kingdom IS NOT observable or percieved as some EARTHLY edifice or to be taken as the physical'. So then what's left JR? SPIRITUAL in nature.

NO you can't observe it. Isn't that what Yeshua said? And if we insist otherwise, aren't we falling into the same mindset as the unbelieving Jews who wanted nothing to do with this type of Kingdom?

From here I simply uphold the time statements and appreciate the work done in the past, most of which took place in the heavenly realm, on our behalf today.

God Bless.

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