New Covenant Theology

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darinhouston
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New Covenant Theology

Post by darinhouston » Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:53 am

Several callers have called over the years asking about New Covenant theology, and I have heard a variety of assumptions about what this means. None seem to identify the distinguishing features I've understood it to mean. Discussion welcome on this as Steve has expressed some interest in knowing more about it. I placed it here in this section because those I've heard it used from in debates tend to associate it with the visible church and the issues surrounding paedopabtism such as equating/replacing circumcision as the visible entry into the covenant membership with baptism doing the same. The main debate I've heard it disused was in paedobaptism debates between calvinists who associate with either "Covenant Theology" on the one hand and "New Covenant Theology" on the other hand (both considering themselves in the "Reformed" camp.

So, I put it to you -- what is "New Covenant Theology" ?

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Paidion
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Re: New Covenant Theology

Post by Paidion » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:09 am

The essence of New Covenant Theology, in my understanding, is that the laws of the Old Covenant, including the 10 commandments, have been abrogated and replaced with the law of Christ, which God places in the hearts of His people. This is expressed in Hebrews 8:6-11 quoted by the writer from Jeremiah 31:31-34

... but as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry which is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.
for if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: "The days will come, says the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they did not continue in my covenant, and so I paid no heed to them, says the Lord. This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach every one his fellow or every one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
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darinhouston
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Re: New Covenant Theology

Post by darinhouston » Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:45 pm

I guess as Steve has said also that I could definitely affirm that. But there must be other distinctives in this movement for it to lead to paedobaptisn.

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Paidion
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Re: New Covenant Theology

Post by Paidion » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:41 pm

Are those distinctives of the movement? Or distinctives of the particular churches which subscribe to New Covenant Theology?
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darinhouston
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Re: New Covenant Theology

Post by darinhouston » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:24 pm

It seemed that way in the debates I listened to.

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Re: New Covenant Theology

Post by gleatherman » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:27 pm

New Covenant Theology is a Baptistic view. It is tied to credo (or believers) baptism.

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Re: New Covenant Theology

Post by verbatim » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:47 am

"Did Christ at any time or place personally tell a sinner to be baptized FOR or in ORDER to the Remission of Sin? If so WHEN and WHERE?"
To prepare the Jewish nation for the establishment of the Messianic kingdom (the church), John preached, "Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matt. 3:2). Jesus' message during His public ministry was the same (Matt. 4:17). Furthermore, Mark records John preached, "the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins" (Mark 1:4). Since Jesus' preaching and baptizing is compared to John's (John 4:1-2), then we know that Jesus' baptism during His public ministry was for the same purpose -- "...for the remission of sins" (though He did not baptize anyone personally).
Concerning baptism "in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins," He did not personally tell anyone to obey such. Why? Because He lived under the Old Testament, and His will (i.e. the New Testament) was not yet in force. Hebrews 9:15 teaches Jesus "is the mediator of the new testament." Verse 17 goes on to say, "For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth." Therefore, Jesus' will, the New Testament, was not in force while He lived upon the earth. It came into effect after He was dead and after it was proclaimed. However, though He did not teach it personally Himself, He did teach baptism for the remission of sins. As we noted in the previous question, the Comforter or Holy Spirit brought all things to the apostles' remembrance. What the apostles taught was not their interpretation but was God's and Christ's Will. Peter, with the eleven, by the inspiration of God said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" (Acts 2:38). Thus, Jesus did teach baptism for the remission of sins both personally, and through the apostles.

In Hebrew 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; (KJV)

...and the law or commandment is what Paul had said in 1 Corinthians 11:23-25 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

This is also parallel of John 6;50-58 which churches call it Holy Eucharist which is too literal and not corresponding to Jesus word s that “the words I speak unto you, they are life and spirit. John 6:63Jesus did not let his disciples to eat his flesh but the Word of God that became flesh.

However, this topic cannot be comprehend by human wisdom and need the guidance of the Holy Spirit on how to properly divide the word of God ( 2Timothy 2:15) which theHoly Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. (1 Corinthians 2:13) not only to divide but add also as said in Isaiah 28:10 Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: and if they cannot speak according To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20 (KJV)
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21centpilgrim
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Re: New Covenant Theology

Post by 21centpilgrim » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:33 am

I called in once about NCT, at that time Steve was not familiar with the label but my brief description was something that he identified with.

The newness of the Spirit, the the types and shadows taking a backseat to the realities and fulfillments, trying to have Biblical theology as opposed to a Systematic theology. the power of the cross and blood of the New Covenant. Listening to Christ above and beyond the law and the prophets.

Just some things that come to mind.
Then those who feared the LORD spoke with each other, and the LORD listened to what they said. In his presence, a scroll of remembrance was written to record the names of those who feared him and loved to think about him.

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Re: New Covenant Theology

Post by dwilkins » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:26 am

I read several books on NCT a few years ago. It seemed to be a Reformed Baptist movement. I don't recall any of the books linked in the first set below spending much time on paedobaptism. It certainly isn't one of their premier points of argument.

NCT seems to me to be a fairly obvious conclusion regarding the Law. The New Testament generation was seeing a transformation from an Old Covenant to a New Covenant, so the priest and the Law associated had to change. Since the moral goodness of the Old Covenant was based on something that transcended the Old Covenant (specifically, the Mosaic Law of Sinai), it was brought forward and even upgraded in some ways for the New Covenant. This only really becomes a problem with Dispensationalits, who see a pause but no real end of the Old Covenant.

It was my opinion at the time that after the first cluster of books were released the reason that the movement slowed down was because of the implications of NCT towards eschatology. I don't think there is a way to remain a modern premillennialist once you see the transition of the Law. I was glad to see the last book linked below because it may be that they have decided to address the crisis head on.

http://www.amazon.com/Tablets-Stone-His ... pd_sim_b_4
http://www.amazon.com/Abrahams-Four-See ... pd_sim_b_6
http://www.amazon.com/New-Covenant-Theo ... t+theology


http://www.amazon.com/Covenant-Theology ... t+theology

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darinhouston
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Re: New Covenant Theology

Post by darinhouston » Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:26 pm

If this interview from Gene Cook is still available, it may be interesting to you (as I recall hearing it years ago)...

http://tnma.blogspot.com/2006/10/jesus-vs-moses.html


Jesus vs. Moses?
Gene interviews James Kime and they discuss the differences between "New Covenant Theology" and "Covenant Theology". Did Jesus come and deliver a "higher and superior" law than the law that God delivered through the mediation of Moses? Jason Robertson was also in studio.
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http://unchainedradio.com/index.php?key ... hop.browse

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