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Born Again or Begotten Again?
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:56 pm
by Paidion
Born Again or Begotten Again?
There is born to you this day in the city of David a Saviour who is the Anointed, the Lord. (Luke 2:11)
The word in this verse correctly translated as “born” is “ετεχθη” the aorist passive indicative of the verb “τικτω” (I bear).
But there is another word that is translated as born in the following verse (by virtually all translations). Jesus said:
Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ (John 3:7 ESV)
The Greek word is not any form of the word “τικτω”. It is “γεννηθηναι”, the aorist passive infinitive of the verb “γενναω” (I beget). It is the word found in the geneologies in Matthew 1:
Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers. (Matthew 1:2 ESV)
Now clearly these men did not give birth to their sons! The word correctly translated as “begot” is a form of “γενναω” (I beget) and not of “τικτω” (I bear)
So I affirm that Jesus told his hearers (as recorded in John 3:7), “You must be begotten again.”
Re: Born Again or Begotten Again?
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:24 pm
by Paidion
I'd be happy to receive some comments on this subject
Re: Born Again or Begotten Again?
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:43 am
by Paidion
Any thoughts?
Re: Born Again or Begotten Again?
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:25 pm
by dwight92070
But how did Nicodemus understand Jesus' words? "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" Strong's says the word means: (descent, birth); to beget, to bring forth; 4 times it is translated "became the father of"
So it appears that the words "born" or "begotten" can be and are used interchangeably. So if there is any difference in meaning, it seems that the context and other factors would help determine what that meaning is.
Re: Born Again or Begotten Again?
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:41 pm
by Paidion
No. It's "How can a man be begotten when he is old?"
The words are NOT used interchangeably.
A person is begotten when one of his father's sperm cells unites with his mothers egg cell.
A person is born 9 moths later, when he emerges from his mother's body as a baby.
Re: Born Again or Begotten Again?
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:37 pm
by Homer
Hi Paidion,
You wrote:
No. It's "How can a man be begotten when he is old?"
The words are NOT used interchangeably.
Then how do you explain that
gennao is used some forty times in Matthew 1:2 - 2:4 clearly in reference to the begetting of a child by the father while in many other places it clearly refers to the mother giving birth? For example:
Luke 1:13, 57
New American Standard Bible 1995
13. But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zacharias, for your petition has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear (gennesei) you a son, and you will give him the name John.
57. Now the time had come for Elizabeth to give birth and she gave birth (eggenensen) to a son.
Luke 23:29
New American Standard Bible 1995
29. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore(eggennesan), and the breasts that never nursed.’
John 9:2
New American Standard Bible 1995
2. And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born (gennethe) blind?”
John 16:21
New American Standard Bible 1995
21. Whenever a woman is in labor she has pain, because her hour has come; but when she gives birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish because of the joy that a child has been born (gennese) into the world.
Hebrews 11:23
New American Standard Bible 1995
23 By faith Moses, when he was born (gennetheis), was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.
The Greek word gennao, according to Thayer, p. 113, is translated both "to be begotten" and "to be born".
The Greek does not make the distinction we make in English.
Re: Born Again or Begotten Again?
Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:45 am
by Homer
I do not know what happened with the ending of my last post, it was italicized which I didn't intend. I copied and pasted to get rid of italics, typed it over, etc. and still it was italicized and the word "not" was missing. Anyhow the end should read:
The Greek word gennao, according to Thayer, p.113, is translated both 'begotten" and "to be born". The Greek does not make the distinction we make in English.
Re: Born Again or Begotten Again?
Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:52 am
by dwight92070
Paidion wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:41 pm
No. It's "How can a man be
begotten when he is old?"
The words are NOT used interchangeably.
Dwight - I just looked up 38 different translations of John 3:4. NONE of them say "How can a man be 'begotten' when he is old?" ALL of them use the word "born". So the problem here is not a faulty translation. Obviously, there is a difference between conception and birth, separated by 9 months, but the translators seem to be seeing it as all one event. They even use that same word to say that a father begot his son, when everyone knows that it's his wife who actually gave birth to his son.
Dwight - Again, Paidion, I'm not seeing your purpose in even bringing up this topic. Where are you headed with this?
Re: Born Again or Begotten Again?
Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:31 am
by Paidion
Dwight, it doesn't matter how many translations mistranslate the word.
Read again what I wrote in the original post:
The Greek word is not any form of the word “τικτω”. It is “γεννηθηναι”, the aorist passive infinitive of the verb “γενναω” (I beget). It is the word found in the geneologies in Matthew 1:
Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers. (Matthew 1:2 ESV)
Now clearly these men did not give birth to their sons! The word correctly translated as “begot” is a form of “γενναω” (I beget) and not of “τικτω” (I bear)
In Greek, the Greek word for "born" comes from the verb “τικτω” (I bear), whereas the Greek word for "begotten" comes from the verb “γενναω” (I beget).
You say you see no purpose in bringing up this subject. Isn't the correct translation of the Greek words purpose enough???
Re: Born Again or Begotten Again?
Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:15 pm
by Homer
Hi Paidion,
So what's your response to my post(s)?