Abrahamic Salvation?

[commonsense]

[/quote]

Where do I start? Do you get your views from Scripture? How do you deal with passages such as this....?

Romans 5
[12] Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned…. [18] Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness led to justification for all men. [19] For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.
[/quote]

Darin, I believe my views are Scriptural, a different interpretation of Scripture perhaps, but Scriptural nonetheless.

I think it might be good to start a different topic on this because it can get pretty intense.

Re: your question on apostolic teaching, if they follow this: Love God and love others as yourself.
When Paul suggests that women remain silent in church, he may have been judging from the above commandments. And this might have been an appropriate response for his time. But times have changed, and so now it would be different.

Obviously, since Commonsense has an obsession with Abraham, we see where the source of this New Topic came from.

Dwight, I don't have an obsession with Abraham. I'm presenting my interpretation of Scripture for pondering purposes. There are many verses in the Bible which suggest that the Father they're referring to in the New Testament is both the one true God( the Holy Spirit) and also Abraham as they were one in the same Spirit. It may not be every time they mention the Father, but at least some of the time.

Abraham was singled out for a specific purpose, which was to bring the son of God( collectively known as Israel, the people of God) into the world.
"I will be their God and they will be My people."
"I will multiply you." This isn't talking about Abraham having lots of physical descendants. Anyone can do that. It's referring to spiritual people like Abraham who believe in the one true God and obey His commandments.
"I will make you fruitful." There's only one way that you're producing the fruit of the Spirit and multiplying( some thirty, some sixty and some a hundredfold).

[dwight92070]

You are deceived. When Abraham is referred to, his name is mentioned. Otherwise, I would venture to say it always refers to God the Father. Abraham is not God the Father anymore than you or I am.

[commonsense]

You are deceived. When Abraham is referred to, his name is mentioned. Otherwise, I would venture to say it always refers to God the Father. Abraham is not God the Father anymore than you or I am.

Abraham is not God, but Abraham is the Father of all who believe. Is Abraham your Father? And in sense is he your Father?

[dwight92070]

Yes, Paul said that he was the father (small "f") of those who believe in the heavenly Father (capital "F"). He was an example of one who had faith in God. "Therefore it was credited to him as righteousness. Now not for his sake only was it credited to him, but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification." Romans 4:22-25

So we have followed Abraham's example (Many of us did not even know about Abraham), in having a faith like his in God That's where it ends. When we connect with God through Jesus, we do not need to follow Abraham. Now we follow God through Jesus our LORD. Many have come to faith in God even without Abraham - Abel, Enoch, Noah, Joseph, Job, all before Abraham's time and even after Abraham came on the scene, many believed without even realizing that they were following Abraham's example of faith. Look at Saul on the road to Damascus, when Jesus appeared to him. Did Jesus even mention Abraham to Saul? No, there was no need to - Saul was to put his trust in Jesus, not Abraham. When Peter preached to the household of Cornelius, did he even mention Abraham? No, there was no need to. They were to put their trust in Jesus, not in Abraham. When I came to Jesus, I had no consciousness of Abraham whatsoever. Yet I was still born again. Abraham remains only as an example of faith in God. He is not a "door" that all must pass through to come to God. Jesus is the only "Door" to God.

[dwight92070]

Correction, obviously Joseph was not before Abraham.

[commonsense]

Yes, Paul said that he was the father (small "f") of those who believe in the heavenly Father (capital "F").

Abraham is also a "heavenly" Father if you define "heavenly" as spiritual since he was a spiritual teacher who was instructing his children in the ways of the one true God.

So we have followed Abraham's example (Many of us did not even know about Abraham),

And this is why there is a New Testament and a new priesthood according to the order of Mel.
" He came to His own and His own did not know Him." They neither knew Abraham, nor the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

When we connect with God through Jesus, we do not need to follow Abraham.

When we obey the Law of Christ, we are obeying the Law which was given to Abraham, and which he was to teach his children. They are one and the same.

Many have come to faith in God even without Abraham - Abel, Enoch, Noah,

This is true. " Before Abraham was I AM." The knowledge of God and the truth of His ways were there in the beginning.

many believed without even realizing that they were following Abraham's example of faith.

True again,
Many who do do not have the law( were not taught) but show the work of the Law written in there hearts are members of the same body.

Jesus is the only "Door" to God.

The two greatest commandments are the door to God, the Spirit in the heart and mind. If you don't love God, you don't have a relationship with Him.

[commonsense]

Abraham remains only as an example of faith in God. He is not a "door" that all must pass through to come to God. Jesus is the only "Door" to God.

We enter into the EVERLASTING COVENANT which God gave to Abraham. "Where the forerunner has entered has entered for us, EVEN Jesus...".
We enter the same way they did, through faith in the Spirit of God and obedience to His commands.
"Because Abraham obeyed My laws, My commandments and My statutes."
How did Jesus enter in? Through obedience to God.

[dwight92070]

Yes, Paul said that he was the father (small "f") of those who believe in the heavenly Father (capital "F").

Abraham is also a "heavenly" Father if you define "heavenly" as spiritual since he was a spiritual teacher who was instructing his children in the ways of the one true God.

Dwight - There is only ONE Father in Heaven (which is what heavenly Father means), the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Creator.

So we have followed Abraham's example (Many of us did not even know about Abraham),

And this is why there is a New Testament and a new priesthood according to the order of Mel.
" He came to His own and His own did not know Him." They neither knew Abraham, nor the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Dwight - I believe His own refers to Israel here. He was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. Knowing Abraham is not necessary to be saved.

When we connect with God through Jesus, we do not need to follow Abraham.

When we obey the Law of Christ, we are obeying the Law which was given to Abraham, and which he was to teach his children. They are one and the same.

Dwight - This is why I say you are obsessed with Abraham. Even if they were the same, which I doubt, we can drop the veneration of Abraham, now that Christ has come.

Jesus is the only "Door" to God.

The two greatest commandments are the door to God, the Spirit in the heart and mind.

Dwight - On the contrary, Jesus Himself is the door to God.

If you don't love God, you don't have a relationship with Him.

Dwight - Many say they love God, but not Jesus - they are lost. If you don't love Jesus, you don't have a relationship with God.

[commonsense]

Dwight - On the contrary, Jesus Himself is the door to God.

Dwight, your response makes no sense.

Deut. 10:12 'What does the Lord your god require of you but to fear the Lord your God by walking in all His ways, to love Him, to serve him with all your heart and soul."

"But if from there, you seek the Lord your God, you will find Him if you seek him with all your heart and soul."

[darinhouston]

Dwight - On the contrary, Jesus Himself is the door to God.

Dwight, your response makes no sense.

Deut. 10:12 'What does the Lord your god require of you but to fear the Lord your God by walking in all His ways, to love Him, to serve him with all your heart and soul."

"But if from there, you seek the Lord your God, you will find Him if you seek him with all your heart and soul."

Finding God in some measure is not the same as being made right with God and having the salvation that comes through Christ here and in eternity. Thankfully, now that we have the opportunity to have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, we can experience God in a full way and truly know Him through Christ Jesus. Finding Him "as a people" and knowing His commandments and having some knowledge of his glory is a far cry from what was still lacking in the restoration those people still needed/wanted and in the relationships as individuals that was only possible through the blood of Jesus.