Abrahamic Salvation?

Man, Sin, & Salvation
commonsense
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Re: Abrahamic Salvation?

Post by commonsense » Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:08 am

dwight92070 wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:40 am
by dwight92070 » Sun Jul 04, 2021 7:40 am

Jesus honored Abraham and Moses and the Mosaic law. He did NOT see that law as coming "from foreign gods", as you do.
Yes, Jesus honored Abraham by obeying the laws that were given to him to teach his children. Abraham wasn't teaching the Levitical law because it didn't exist in his day.

Moses wasn't teaching the Levitical law either. He was teaching the SAME thing that Jesus was teaching, as it says: "All ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink, for they drank of the rock that followed them and that Rock was Christ.
People added to the word of God, something we are told not to do. The Bible may say that Moses said this or that, but as it is said, " Many will come in My name and teach false words."
dwight92070 wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:40 am
"A NEW commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another."
"

How is this a NEW commandment?
Deut.10:19 "Therefore love the stranger, for you were once strangers in the land of Egypt.
Lev. 19:18 "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Lev. 19:17 " You shall not hate your brother in your heart,"
Lev 19:34 "You shall love the alien as yourself."
Zech. 7: 9-10 " Thus says the Lord, Render true judgments, show mercy and compassion everyone to his brother. Do not oppress the widow, the fatherless, the alien or the poor. Do not devise evil in your hearts against one another."

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Homer
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Re: Abrahamic Salvation?

Post by Homer » Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:50 am

A NEW commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.


How is this a NEW commandment?
Deut.10:19 "Therefore love the stranger, for you were once strangers in the land of Egypt.
Lev. 19:18 "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Lev. 19:17 " You shall not hate your brother in your heart,"
Lev 19:34 "You shall love the alien as yourself."
Zech. 7: 9-10 " Thus says the Lord, Render true judgments, show mercy and compassion everyone to his brother. Do not oppress the widow, the fatherless, the alien or the poor. Do not devise evil in your hearts against one another.

Didn't Jesus love us more than He loved Himself? Think of it; that is very difficult.

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dwight92070
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Re: Abrahamic Salvation?

Post by dwight92070 » Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:53 pm

commonsense wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:08 am

Yes, Jesus honored Abraham by obeying the laws that were given to him to teach his children. Abraham wasn't teaching the Levitical law because it didn't exist in his day.

Dwight - Once again, you are mistaken. Jesus obeyed His Father, NOT the laws given to Abraham. If the laws given to Abraham were meant for all of us, then God would have preserved them. Maybe they were preserved, as we have suggested through other authors of the Old Testament. Whether they were or not DOES NOT MATTER. God has given us everything we need. Again, you are OBSESSED WITH ABRAHAM. Jesus wasn't, Paul wasn't, John wasn't, Peter wasn't, James wasn't, Luke wasn't, Mark wasn't, Jude wasn't, Moses wasn't - Sure, they speak of Abraham, but they were not obsessed with him as you are.

Dwight - We are not saved by obeying Abraham or by keeping the laws given to him. We are not saved by keeping the golden rule or ANY law. Peter said, "And there is SALVATION IN NO ONE ELSE; for there is NO OTHER NAME (other than JESUS) under heaven that has been given among men BY WHICH WE MUST BE SAVED. Acts 4:12 Not Abraham, Not Moses NO ONE ELSE!!

Moses wasn't teaching the Levitical law either.

Dwight - YES he was!

He was teaching the SAME thing that Jesus was teaching, as it says

Dwight - NO he was not! The law of Moses WAS NOT the New Covenant.

People added to the word of God, something we are told not to do.

Dwight - YOU are adding to the word of God, pretending it says something that it does not say.

"A NEW commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another."

How is this a NEW commandment?
Dwight - I already explained it to you, but apparently you ignored that. Also, JESUS CALLED IT A NEW COVENANT, so whether you like it or not, it IS a new covenant.

Deut.10:19 "Therefore love the stranger, for you were once strangers in the land of Egypt.
Lev. 19:18 "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Lev. 19:17 " You shall not hate your brother in your heart,"
Lev 19:34 "You shall love the alien as yourself."
Zech. 7: 9-10 " Thus says the Lord, Render true judgments, show mercy and compassion everyone to his brother. Do not oppress the widow, the fatherless, the alien or the poor. Do not devise evil in your hearts against one another."

Dwight - You can do ALL of those things, and STILL NOT BE SAVED. If you haven't been saved by Jesus, NO AMOUNT OF OBEDIENCE TO ABRAHAMIC LAW, LEVITICAL LAW, OR ANY OTHER LAW WILL SAVE YOU!

Dwight - You are not even consistent with your own "teaching." You tell us that the law of Moses came from "foreign gods". But you just now quoted from that very law 4 times.

commonsense
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Re: Abrahamic Salvation?

Post by commonsense » Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:17 pm

Homer wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:50 am
Didn't Jesus love us more than He loved Himself? Think of it; that is very difficult.
Homer, Jesus was a temple of the Holy Spirit. He wouldn't have compromised His relationship with God for anyone else. The commandment is to love others as yourself. His commandment was not new.
Galatians 5:14 "All the law is fulfilled in one word,even in this, Love your neighbor as yourself." Jesus fulfilled this Law and we're to do the same.
dwight92070 wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:53 pm
. If the laws given to Abraham were meant for all of us, then God would have preserved them
They were preserved -in the prophets , in Jesus and in others.
dwight92070 wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:53 pm
Dwight - We are not saved by obeying Abraham or by keeping the laws given to him. We are not saved by keeping the golden rule or ANY law.
" So then those who are of faith are blessed by BELIEVING ABRAHAM."
Obedience to God's word/law is essential for salvation. Love others as yourself.That's the Law of God.
"If you don't forgive others, neither will the father forgive you."
If you don't believe this then don't follow it, and see how that turns out for you.
dwight92070 wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:53 pm
Dwight - You are not even consistent with your own "teaching." You tell us that the law of Moses came from "foreign gods". But you just now quoted from that very law 4 times.
I said that Moses was teaching the same thing that Jesus was teaching, which is the Law of Christ. Any other teaching that is attributed to Moses has been added and taught falsely in his name.

As Moses said, "God will raise up a prophet LIKE ME. Him you shall hear."
If Moses was teaching the Levitcal law, then Jesus was NOT a prophet like Moses because Jesus wasn't teaching the Levitical law.
When Jesus was transformed on the Mount, He was joined to the Spirits of Moses and Elijah, because they were all one in the same Spirit of God.
As Hebrew says, Jesus was that Moses.

commonsense
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Re: Abrahamic Salvation?

Post by commonsense » Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:51 pm

commonsense wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:17 pm
Homer wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:50 am
Didn't Jesus love us more than He loved Himself? Think of it; that is very difficult.
Homer, Jesus was a temple of the Holy Spirit. He wouldn't have compromised His relationship with God for anyone else. The commandment is to love others as yourself. His commandment was not new.
Galatians 5:14 "All the law is fulfilled in one word,even in this, Love your neighbor as yourself." Jesus fulfilled this Law and we're to do the same.
dwight92070 wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:53 pm
. If the laws given to Abraham were meant for all of us, then God would have preserved them
They were preserved -in the prophets , in Jesus and in others.
dwight92070 wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:53 pm
Dwight - We are not saved by obeying Abraham or by keeping the laws given to him. We are not saved by keeping the golden rule or ANY law.
" So then those who are of faith are blessed by BELIEVING ABRAHAM."
Obedience to God's word/law is essential for salvation. Love others as yourself.That's the Law of God.
"If you don't forgive others, neither will the father forgive you."
If you don't believe this then don't follow it, and see how that turns out for you. But, from the examples in the Scriptures, and from the things that are clearly seen and understood by the things that are made, it won't go very well.
dwight92070 wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 5:53 pm
Dwight - You are not even consistent with your own "teaching." You tell us that the law of Moses came from "foreign gods". But you just now quoted from that very law 4 times.
I said that Moses was teaching the same thing that Jesus was teaching, which is the Law of Christ. Any other teaching that is attributed to Moses has been added and taught falsely in his name.

As Moses said, "God will raise up a prophet LIKE ME. Him you shall hear."
If Moses was teaching the Levitcal law, then Jesus was NOT a prophet like Moses because Jesus wasn't teaching the Levitical law.
When Jesus was transformed on the Mount, He was joined to the Spirits of Moses and Elijah, because they were all one in the same Spirit of God.
As Hebrew says, Jesus was that Moses.

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dwight92070
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Re: Abrahamic Salvation?

Post by dwight92070 » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:51 am

It's no wonder that you are not part of any organized church. Because I doubt you can find anyone who agrees with you. I have not heard anyone on this forum who agrees with you. If you are the only one who believes like you do, then that should tell you something. Or else, maybe you could tell us. How many like-minded people do you fellowship with?

commonsense
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Re: Abrahamic Salvation?

Post by commonsense » Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:19 pm

dwight92070 wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:51 am
It's no wonder that you are not part of any organized church. Because I doubt you can find anyone who agrees with you. I have not heard anyone on this forum who agrees with you.
Dwight, I have no religious tradition or doctrine. I'm simply reading what the Scriptures are saying. If people don't agree, that's fine. People didn't believe the prophets or Jesus either. But, if anyone else is interested, I'd be happy to discuss.

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Homer
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Re: Abrahamic Salvation?

Post by Homer » Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:18 pm

Commonsense:

Dwight asked:
Or else, maybe you could tell us. How many like-minded people do you fellowship with?
Again you evade the question. Are there any who agree with you?

commonsense
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Re: Abrahamic Salvation?

Post by commonsense » Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:22 pm

Homer, we can continue in the discussion of the topic if you want to. If not, then we won't.

Starting with this verse: "All were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. All ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of the spiritual Rock that followed them and that Rock was Christ."

What does this mean to you? Because what it says to me, is that the spiritual food they received was the very same spiritual food that Jesus was feeding people, aka the Law of Christ which is the Law of God.

" If anyone puts My teachings into practice, you will be like a wise man who built his house on a rock ( the principles of God).
Do you have another interpretation?

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dwight92070
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Re: Abrahamic Salvation?

Post by dwight92070 » Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:59 am

Homer,
Since Commonsense is not willing to give us a straightforward answer as to how many like-minded people he fellowships with, I think we can safely infer that the answer is zero. He seems to imply that by saying that people rejected Jesus and the prophets too. What he forgets is that Jesus and the prophets had MANY who fellowshipped with them. Jesus had His disciples, which numbered at least 120 on the day of Pentecost, but was probably hundreds or thousands more. Although fellowship may have been sparse at times, for the prophets, they seem to have had other prophets that they were mentoring and/or servants with them.
Also, just because your doctrine is rejected by most, if not all, Christians, this does not mean that you are being persecuted and that your doctrine is true. If, in fact, all other Christians reject your doctrine, then YOU have a problem, NOT THEM.

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