Abrahamic Salvation?

Man, Sin, & Salvation
commonsense
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by commonsense » Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:05 am

darinhouston wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:29 am
As a Christian, all of the scriptural discussion about the seed of Abraham points to Christ as the central figure of our redemption and our path to a relationship with the Father.
Darin, Our path to a relationship with God has always been accessible. So I'm not sure what you're saying. The only one blocking that path is man.

Hebrews 3:18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

Loving God and loving others as ourselves is what draws us near to God and brings us into relationship with Him.

commonsense
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by commonsense » Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:57 am

darinhouston wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:29 am
Abraham played an important role in the history of the church and in bringing forth the precursor to the NT church (and so might be worthy of some degree of devotion or even perhaps adoration), particularly since he is called out in the so-called "Hall of Faith.
" I tell you that from these stones, God is able to raise up children unto Abraham."

Is God building a totally different house, or is He raising up a house that had been built before but had fallen down?

"Because of laziness the roof caves in, and because of negligent hands the house leaks."

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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:17 am

So, under your belief system, Jesus didn't even have to come. We would have been fine with just Abraham.

commonsense
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by commonsense » Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:44 pm

dwight92070 wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:17 am
So, under your belief system, Jesus didn't even have to come. We would have been fine with just Abraham.
Yep. that's what the Bible is saying. Had Israel continued to follow Abraham, they would have been blessed.
"Those who bless (honor) Abraham will be blessed."

Ezekiel 16:4 -14 "As for you nativity, on the day you were born, your navel cord was not cut, nor were you washed in water to cleanse you; you were not rubbed with salt nor swathed in swaddling cloths. No eye pitied you, to do any of these things for you, to have compassion on you; but you were thrown out into an open field, when you yourself were loathed on the day you were born. And when I passed by you and saw you struggling in your own blood, I said to you in your blood, Live! I made you thrive like a plant in the field; and you grew, matured and and became very beautiful.... When I passed by you again and looked upon you, indeed your time was the time of love; so I spread My wing over you and covered your nakedness. Yes I swore an oath to you and entered into a covenant with you, and you became Mine. Then I washed you in water and I anointed you with oil. I clothed you in embroidered cloth and gave you sandals of badger skin, I clothed you with fine linen and covered you with silk........You were exceedingly beautiful, and succeeded to royalty. Your fame went out among the nations because of your beauty, for it was perfect through my splendor which I bestowed on you."

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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:51 pm

You are mistaken and deceived. No one is saved by works, but by grace through faith in the blood of Jesus. Mankind was lost after the fall, both before Abraham and after Abraham. Following Abraham would not have and does not now change that. We all (including Abraham) need to enter (salvation) through the door - that door is only Christ Himself. Abraham cannot save anyone, neither during his lifetime or now.

This is why your belief is an Abraham cult. You are twisting and misinterpretting scripture, to come up with your bizarre belief.

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dwight92070
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by dwight92070 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:21 pm

Matthew 23:34 Jesus said, "... I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes ..." Jesus is doing something here, that only God can do, sending prophets even after He was crucified and risen. He also refers to this same thing in Luke 11:49 Jesus said, "For this reason also the wisdom of God said, "I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill ..." This is a reference to God sending prophets in the Old Testament and apostles in the New Testament time, spanning hundreds and thousands of years. Notice the reference to God as the "wisdom of God".

But 1 Corinthians 1:24 says that Christ is the "power of God and the wisdom of God". So, Who sent the prophets, the wise men, and the apostles throughout the Bible time --God or Jesus? Both, because they are One and the same.

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darinhouston
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Abrahamic Salvation?

Post by darinhouston » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:27 am

This is a new topic - moved posts from long and winding topic on "Jesus is God" - this thread is specific to a salvation issue - was Jesus necessary or is faith in Abraham sufficient.

I felt this was an important topic to treat separately and fully as it is raises issues central to our faith.

commonsense
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by commonsense » Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:22 am

dwight92070 wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:51 pm
You are mistaken and deceived. No one is saved by works, but by grace through faith in the blood of Jesus. Mankind was lost after the fall, both before Abraham and after Abraham. Following Abraham would not have and does not now change that. We all (including Abraham) need to enter (salvation) through the door - that door is only Christ Himself. Abraham cannot save anyone, neither during his lifetime or now.

This is why your belief is an Abraham cult. You are twisting and misinterpretting scripture, to come up with your bizarre belief.
Dwight,All mankind was not lost after after the fall. What do you think God is doing in the Old Testament? He's working to bring people back to Him.
I didn't say Abraham can save anyone. It's the Spirit of God that saves, and Abraham was TEACHING his children about this one true God.

"For I have singled him out to command his sons and his household after him to maintain the way of God by just and upright living."
dwight92070 wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:21 pm
Matthew 23:34 Jesus said, "... I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes ..." Jesus is doing something here, that only God can do,
Teaching the word of God and sending them out to teach others doesn't make you God.
" Let my teaching drop as the rain, my speech distill as the dew. For I proclaim the name of the Lord; ascribe greatness to our God. He is the Rock. His work is perfect...."(Moses)

It's up to each person whether or not one hears, believes and obeys.

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darinhouston
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by darinhouston » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:07 pm

commonsense wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:22 am
All mankind was not lost after after the fall.
commonsense, in what sense do you mean this? Can you elaborate? That is troubling to me if I'm understanding you correctly.

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darinhouston
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Re: Jesus is God

Post by darinhouston » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:09 pm

commonsense wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:22 am
I didn't say Abraham can save anyone. It's the Spirit of God that saves, and Abraham was TEACHING his children about this one true God.
But, isn't it the case that the Spirit could not (or at least would not) save anyone until after Christ made the way and began making intercession (even in retrospect for OT Saints whose faith was then "accounted" as righteousness)?

Isn't our righteousness in fact "Christ's righteousness" applied to our account?

Isn't Christ the ONLY way to the Father after the Fall?

Jesus was more than a teacher -- he was specially anointed and uniquely born of the Father by His Spirit and His death and resurrection and our faith in this fact and surrender to his lordship alone is what brings us to the Father.

Do you believe that a pagan who faithfully tried to follow every teaching of Christ would be saved?

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