The Role of Hell in the Gospel Message?

[jriccitelli]

(Verbatim; Gold has an incredible resistance to oxygen, thus it wont burn. Silver has a similarly high tolerance to oxygen and burning, but not so high. Interestingly silver is quite often gleaned from gold smelting)
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Hell is akin to judgment. So what does it mean to be saved?
The verdict was death, upon all men.
The weight of our sins had produced death, we are as dead men, like those bitten by snakes, we like them had to look to the Cross because we were going to die.
News flash! Gospel means - Good news - thus it means there is - Bad news - the Law of death, and of punishment.
I do not assume that someone is saved if they do no believe they needed saving. If someone claims to accept Christ but later denies that they needed to be saved from judgment, the punishments of sin, including death, and hell, then they haven’t yet been saved from their delusions.

Remember, I hold that God will 'fairly' punish with just judgment, then annihilate the sinner. Maybe some will not experience anything but destruction, and the judgment itself. But both judgment and destruction are clearly repeated over and over in scripture, we can accept and believe, or you can choose not to believe, Gods Word.

[verbatim]

jriccitelli wrote:

Verbatim; Gold has an incredible resistance to oxygen, thus it wont burn. Silver has a similarly high tolerance to oxygen and burning, but not so high. Interestingly silver is quite often gleaned from gold smelting)
-----------------------------------------
Hell is akin to judgment. So what does it mean to be saved?
The verdict was death, upon all men.
The weight of our sins had produced death, we are as dead men, like those bitten by snakes, we like them had to look to the Cross because we were going to die.
News flash! Gospel means - Good news - thus it means there is - Bad news - the Law of death, and of punishment.
I do not assume that someone is saved if they do no believe they needed saving. If someone claims to accept Christ but later denies that they needed to be saved from judgment, the punishments of sin, including death, and hell, then they haven’t yet been saved from their delusions.

Remember, I hold that God will 'fairly' punish with just judgment, then annihilate the sinner. Maybe some will not experience anything but destruction, and the judgment itself. But both judgment and destruction are clearly repeated over and over in scripture, we can accept and believe, or you can choose not to believe, Gods Word.

I agree with your annotation even it did not answer my question and do you also believed in
Jesus words in John 11:25-26 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the
life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest
thou this?

Regarding my query about Psalm 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth,
purified seven times.

Comparing the words of God to gold and silver purified seven times means the word of God
being unpolluted Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto
them that put their trust in him. Proverbs 30:5 which is a metaphor of seven spirit
of God Rev 4:5.

As was noted in the book of Revelation also gives us lampstand imagery, wherein seven lampstands symbolize the seven churches making up the whole of God's Church (see Rev 1:12-16, 20). In a heavenly vision, the apostle John also saw "seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God" (Revelation 4:5)—seemingly parallel to the representative angels of the seven churches (see Rev 1:20; 3:1).
A lamp allows people to see in the dark. It is scripturally a symbol of God's Word and law, the light of truth and understanding to illuminate the path His people must walk (see Psalm 119:105, 130; Proverbs 6:23). Jesus Christ, the living Word of God, was sent into the world as the Light (John 1:1-9, 14; 8:12; 9:5). But His light is also to shine forth from all of God's people—not only in proclaiming God's Word but in living it. As Jesus told His followers: "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works [not just knowledge and words] and glorify your Father in heaven" (Matthew 5:14-16).

[Jim]

I'm curious to discuss whether people think the topic of hell (regardless of which classical view you take on it) should have any important part of the gospel message we as Christians present? If so, how much emphasis should be placed on it?

Hell, what is it? Is it punishment? No, it is not punishment, it is simply to put, after the last judgment separation from the rest, but those who are separated do not suffer because of being punished but simply because they hate God who is fully present everywhere and at all times. Love never stops chasing after the object that is love, that is us, either in rebellion or obedience. Those who hate God, experience the Love of God, which is God, he being a consuming fire, as fire and burning within themselves, not because of what God does, but because of their own hatred, selfishness, vanity, etc., those who Love God, experience the same fire as joy, an example can be seen in the Psalms with the forked flame.

[steve]

So, Jim, your answer to anochria's question (which you posted above your comments) is...?

[Jim]

So, Jim, your answer to anochria's question (which you posted above your comments) is...?

To answer his question, it isn't if someone is going to heaven or hell, both are experienced now to various degree's and will be fully experienced in the future but, the question is do you want to become what and who you were meant to become (Theosis) or do you prefer the current path. One path, Theosis will be joyful, community of love, filled with God (koinonia), energized by the energeia of God, complete healing of body and soul. The other path will be internally painful, full of rage, darkness, nothing ever satisfying, not out of anything God has done to you as a penal punishment, but because a person loves the darkness which being engulfed by the consuming fire of Gods love will experience internal suffering and rail against God and those who Love Him. Hell is not about being punished, it is about a relationship and how you experience that relationship and all relationships. So, in this context, the understanding of Hell can be used not to scare a person, but to show a better path. Hope that helps. If not, I will try again, when I have time.

[Paidion]

God said to Adam the day that you eat you will die, it seems you are skipping past God and 30 something books and prophets of the Old Testament that warn of judgment and death.
Seems to me hell is synonymous with punishment and death.

Yes, God warned Adam and Eve that they would die the day they disobeyed and ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And on that very day the death process began in them, and so with each of their descendents from the day they were born. The whole of mankind is fallen and has a tendency to do what they wish to do rather than what God wishes.

I don't think physical death is synonymous with hell... Hmmmmm.... maybe it is in a sense . And hell is not synonymous with punishment, though it includes corrective "punishment".

In any case, in the Garden of Eden, God's warning about eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil was not The Gospel. It was a warning about disobedience.
Nor were the writings from your "30 something books and prophets of the Old Testament" the gospel.

The Gospel came through the Messiah Jesus. And the beginning of that gospel did not come with Adam and Eve, or the OT prophets, but with the prophet John the baptizer:

The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.(Mark 1:1)

Mark then goes on to tell how Isaiah predicted the appearance of John where spoke the words of God, "Behold I send my messenger before your face, who will prepare your way, the voice of one crying in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight,’”

Then Mark proceeds to describe John's ministry saying, "John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forsaking of sins." (verse 4)
and also that Jesus proclaimed this same gospel:

Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” (verses 14,15)

Both John and Jesus gave repentance as a condition for receiving the good news. Jesus (or rather His disciples) also baptized.
To repent doesn't mean to feel sorry. Rather Godly sorrow LEADS to repentance. Repentance is having a change of heart and mind.

Peter also gave the message of repentance and baptism to those who were cut to the heart:

And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forsaking of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

But then, after Christ was raised from death, and after that special day of Pentecost, something new was added — reception of the Holy Spirit.

The apostle Paul also proclaimed repentance, "The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent."(Acts 17:30)

Also, John the baptizer, Jesus, Peter, and Paul announced the Kingdom of God. That's part of the gospel, too. Indeed, the gospel is called "The gospel of the Kingdom." (Matthew 4:13, 9:35, 24:14)

But none of the above proclaimed hell while they preached the gospel. The gospel is GOOD NEWS —— not bad news.

[Soulsnaxx]

Here is a little video that touches on the role of hell in the Gospel message

http://youtu.be/oEosKQPJkmA

[steve7150]

Hell, what is it? Is it punishment? No, it is not punishment, it is simply to put, after the last judgment separation from the rest, but those who are separated do not suffer because of being punished but simply because they hate God






Why must it be the last judgment as opposed to "a judgment"? Where do we find "last judgment"?

[Jim]

Hell, what is it? Is it punishment? No, it is not punishment, it is simply to put, after the last judgment separation from the rest, but those who are separated do not suffer because of being punished but simply because they hate God

Why must it be the last judgment as opposed to "a judgment"? Where do we find "last judgment"?

Why? Because there will be some who's hearts are so hard that they can longer or have no possibility to love any longer. There of course are some who come fairly close to being universalist in the writings of the Church Fathers and that the light and love of God wins all or at least most over in the end. Again, the focus should not be on someone hating, but someone turning and wanting to love and be loved, to be healed body and soul.

[steve7150]

Why? Because there will be some who's hearts are so hard that they can longer or have no possibility to love any longer. There of course are some who come fairly close to being universalist in the writings of the Church Fathers and that the light and love of God wins all or at least most over in the end. Again, the focus should not be on someone hating, but someone turning and wanting to love and be loved, to be healed body and soul.





We can't really know that now. What we do know is that in this age the devil blinds the minds of unbelievers but at the judgment the devil and friends go into the lake of fire. Then the huge majority of humanity over history who are not Christian will get to see and know Christ for the first time. So does God's judgment allow for punishment and or reconciliation? I think so as the greek word for judgment "krisis" seems to include this possibility.