The Narrow Path Ministries

Apparently you CAN make sense of it.

Or you got really, really lucky.

you also wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:39 am

For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. (1 Cor. 2:11 NKJ)

Impersonal forces don't "know" things...

jeremiah wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 03, 2023 11:33 pm

Hi Dwight,

you wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 03, 2023 7:39 pm

No, actually they cannot. How can you obtain righteousness, peace, and joy from something other than a person?...

The apostle(s) do not say we "obtain" these from the holy Spirit, but these are in the holy Spirit. They are easily understood as coming from God himself.

Dwight - Now it is you who making a distinction without a difference. The fruit of an apple tree is apples. Apples come FROM an apple tree. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is goodness, peace, joy, etc. Goodness or righteousness, peace, and joy come FROM the Holy Spirit. Galatians 5:22 This is the APOSTLE PAUL speaking here.

Dwight - The Holy Spirit IS God Himself, as is Jesus - and yet they are distinct at the same time.

you also wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 03, 2023 7:39 pm

How can you grieve a non-person? How can a non-person sanctify you? How can it be that a non-person would know the difference between "Jesus is accursed" and "Jesus is Lord", since a non-person has no mind, at least not equal intelligence that even approaches that of a person? How is it possible to lie to a non-person? Acts 5:3

If Jesus and the apostles never intended us to understand the holy Spirit as a third person of the godhead, then there is no problem speaking this way

Dwight - I don't it was their intention to give us that understanding. Nor was it their intention to dissuade us from that understanding. They simply stated facts relating to the Holy Spirit. Those facts make it clear that the Holy Spirit is a person and is God.

darinhouston wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 04, 2023 8:00 am

Spiritual matters are always going to be a bit of conjecture as they are only revealed to us in part it seems. But, I don't have a problem seeing the spirit of man or the spirit of God as being in a sense "personal" without being a "separate person" as in many ways it is our "spirit" that is "who we are" as humans and not just biological machines or "bags of meat." There are a lot of views about whether there is a difference between the mind and the spirit but it seems it is by our spirit or by His spirit that we know anything (of a spiritual sort at least). If God works through His spirit then it is by that spirit that we know Him and experience Him. It is by our spirit that we know and discern and so forth - that doesn't make there two of us any more than it has to make two of God. And unlike us, God doesn't seem to have parts and is "only" Spirit. It is who and what He is and by and through which he does everything and interacts with everything. That is neither an "impersonal force" nor necessarily a separate person.

dizerner wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 04, 2023 7:43 pm

darinhouston wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 04, 2023 8:00 am

Spiritual matters are always going to be a bit of conjecture as they are only revealed to us in part it seems. But, I don't have a problem seeing the spirit of man or the spirit of God as being in a sense "personal" without being a "separate person" as in many ways it is our "spirit" that is "who we are" as humans and not just biological machines or "bags of meat." There are a lot of views about whether there is a difference between the mind and the spirit but it seems it is by our spirit or by His spirit that we know anything (of a spiritual sort at least). If God works through His spirit then it is by that spirit that we know Him and experience Him. It is by our spirit that we know and discern and so forth - that doesn't make there two of us any more than it has to make two of God. And unlike us, God doesn't seem to have parts and is "only" Spirit. It is who and what He is and by and through which he does everything and interacts with everything. That is neither an "impersonal force" nor necessarily a separate person.

Think of it this way.

You are helping someone change their tire, they say "Thanks."

Then you say, "And now I will send another helper to help you change your tire, my spirit."

There are limits to poetic speech, and we don't call our own personhood another of the same kind.

Please don't settle, even if you think you've put in so much work—ask God afresh again, for there is something you are missing.

It couldn't hurt.