Christology & the Early Church Fathers

God, Christ, & The Holy Spirit
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Homer
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Christology & the Early Church Fathers

Post by Homer » Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:18 pm

There hasn't been a lot of discussion here concerning what the earliest Christians (ante-Nicene) believed about the person of Jesus. I'm interested in hearing any quotes that support the various ideas that have been espoused here on the subject.

I recently read in Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Ephesians and noted that in both the longer and shorter versions he appears to have clearly believed in the deity and preexistence of Christ.

From the short version:

There is one Physician who is possessed of both flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible.....


From the long version:

But our physician is the only true God, the unbegotten and unapproachable, the Lord of all, the Father and Begetter of the only begotten Son. We have also as a physician the Lord our God, Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For "the Word was made flesh". being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passible body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life , He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts.

Ignatius, who was martyred c. 207-209 c.e. was said, along with Polycarp, to be a student of the Apostle John.

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darinhouston
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Re: Christology & the Early Church Fathers

Post by darinhouston » Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:47 pm

Homer wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 3:18 pm
There hasn't been a lot of discussion here concerning what the earliest Christians (ante-Nicene) believed about the person of Jesus. I'm interested in hearing any quotes that support the various ideas that have been espoused here on the subject.

I recently read in Ignatius of Antioch's letter to the Ephesians and noted that in both the longer and shorter versions he appears to have clearly believed in the deity and preexistence of Christ.

From the short version:

There is one Physician who is possessed of both flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible.....


From the long version:

But our physician is the only true God, the unbegotten and unapproachable, the Lord of all, the Father and Begetter of the only begotten Son. We have also as a physician the Lord our God, Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For "the Word was made flesh". being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passible body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life , He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts.

Ignatius, who was martyred c. 207-209 c.e. was said, along with Polycarp, to be a student of the Apostle John.
I've been very busy at work lately but I would point out that there is considerable controversy about the "canon" of Ignatius' writings and significant textual variants in them. I'm no expert in that, but it's worth looking into and a lot has been written on it.

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darinhouston
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Re: Christology & the Early Church Fathers

Post by darinhouston » Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:23 pm

Homer, you might find this discussion interesting...

https://trinities.org/blog/podcast-262- ... ore-nicea/

Were the earliest Christians trinitarian? This episode is pastor Sean Finnegan’s presentation “The Trinity before Nicea” recorded at the Theological Conference in April of 2019.

Also here, along with a pdf of his paper if you'd prefer to read it...
https://restitutio.org/2019/04/12/the-t ... ore-nicea/

Paper...
https://restitutio.org/wp-content/uploa ... n-2019.pdf

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dwight92070
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Re: Christology & the Early Church Fathers

Post by dwight92070 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 4:20 am

darinhouston wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:23 pm
Homer, you might find this discussion interesting...

https://trinities.org/blog/podcast-262- ... ore-nicea/

Were the earliest Christians trinitarian? This episode is pastor Sean Finnegan’s presentation “The Trinity before Nicea” recorded at the Theological Conference in April of 2019.

Also here, along with a pdf of his paper if you'd prefer to read it...
https://restitutio.org/2019/04/12/the-t ... ore-nicea/

Paper...
https://restitutio.org/wp-content/uploa ... n-2019.pdf
All it took for me was to hear one "F" word coming out of the mouth of Sean Finnegan in a May 2021 interview, to discount everything he had to say. Don't tell me that this man is an actual Christian, who has no problem publicly using filthy language, trying to persuade us that Jesus is not God. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. Proverbs 19:1 - "Better is a poor man who walks in his integrity than he who is perverse in his lips and is a fool." Proverbs 8:13 = "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way and the perverted mouth, I hate."

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dwight92070
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Re: Christology & the Early Church Fathers

Post by dwight92070 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 9:28 am

After listening to the same clip carefully several times, I retract my statement that Sean Finnegan used the "F" word. Apparently he used the word "funky", if I'm understanding it correctly. So I apologize to him and to everyone here for making the accusation. I've never heard the guy before, so I had no idea what to expect.

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