Who is the Alpha & Omega?

God, Christ, & The Holy Spirit
User avatar
dwight92070
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:09 am

Re: Who is the Alpha & Omega?

Post by dwight92070 » Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:14 pm

Otherness,
I already cited deviations from the scripture in your post, but apparently you don't feel like you have to defend them. I could look for more, but I didn't really want to get "into the weeds" on this - i.e. taking point by point. If you don't even comment and defend yourself on those deviations, what's the need to go further? So I'll wait for your answer on this, and then we can proceed.

In the meantime, please consider the following:

Hebrews 10:23-25 - "Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, NOT FORSAKING OUR OWN ASSEMBLING TOGETHER, AS IS THE HABIT OF SOME, but encouraging one another; and ALL THE MORE AS YOU SEE THE DAY DRAWING NEAR.

So I was saved in 1970, and have been assembling together with other believers, at least on a weekly basis, often times even more, that whole time - 52 years. After being saved, I attended church at the chapel in the Air Force for 2 years. The next 19 years, I was at one church in Denver, where I met my future wife, and we married there. Then I was looking for another church home, so we visited (and stayed at) at least 10 different churches over a 10 year period. Even during that time, we went at least weekly. Then in 2001, we started going to a homechurch, and have been there 21 years. Every church we attended was non-denominational.

Please tell me where and how long you have assembled with other believers, and where you are currently attending.

User avatar
dwight92070
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:09 am

Re: Who is the Alpha & Omega?

Post by dwight92070 » Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:21 pm

Otherness,

I almost forgot. My wife and I have been married 38 years and we have 5 children, 3 are married - and we just "had" our first grandchild - a boy.
Are you married? How long? Any children?

User avatar
darinhouston
Posts: 3112
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Who is the Alpha & Omega?

Post by darinhouston » Mon Nov 07, 2022 10:18 pm

dwight92070 wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:21 pm
Otherness,

I almost forgot. My wife and I have been married 38 years and we have 5 children, 3 are married - and we just "had" our first grandchild - a boy.
Are you married? How long? Any children?
I know you addressed this to otherness, but my wife and I have been married 22 years and have 2 "young" children - both teenagers (I'll be 56 for another couple of weeks).

User avatar
Homer
Posts: 2995
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:08 pm

Re: Who is the Alpha & Omega?

Post by Homer » Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:30 am

Methinks this thread has wandered far away from where it began. I must have missed something - what's the point of how often a person goes to church, how long they've been married, & c?

Next month, Lord willing, I'll be 83 and married 63 years.

Otherness
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:46 pm

Re: Who is the Alpha & Omega?

Post by Otherness » Wed Nov 09, 2022 2:02 am

Dwight>>>Otherness, I already cited deviations from the scripture in your post, but apparently you don't feel like you have to defend them. I could look for more, but I didn't really want to get "into the weeds" on this - i.e. taking point by point. If you don't even comment and defend yourself on those deviations, what's the need to go further? So I'll wait for your answer on this, and then we can proceed.<<<

The thing is, I don't see anything in your reply that addresses the actual content of my post. Your critique, using the scriptures that you did, simply asserts that I'm doing something, and saying things, that I shouldn't. What I am asking is that you would point out, specifically, what I am saying about God and His Creation that cannot be justified by the teaching of Scripture. I do not agree with your judgment, and I need you to point out what are, in your estimation. “weeds.”

Dwight>>>In the meantime, please consider the following: Hebrews 10:23-25 - "Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, NOT FORSAKING OUR OWN ASSEMBLING TOGETHER, AS IS THE HABIT OF SOME, but encouraging one another; and ALL THE MORE AS YOU SEE THE DAY DRAWING NEAR. So I was saved in 1970, and have been assembling together with other believers, at least on a weekly basis, often times even more, that whole time - 52 years. After being saved, I attended church at the chapel in the Air Force for 2 years. The next 19 years, I was at one church in Denver, where I met my future wife, and we married there. Then I was looking for another church home, so we visited (and stayed at) at least 10 different churches over a 10 year period. Even during that time, we went at least weekly. Then in 2001, we started going to a homechurch, and have been there 21 years. Every church we attended was non-denominational. Please tell me where and how long you have assembled with other believers, and where you are currently attending.<<<

Hmm...this is an interesting (non)segue, and out of respect I'll digress with you a bit. I would say, as humbly as I can, that my whole life since that moment 52 years ago has been a transformation from abject self centeredness to joyful other centeredness. As He does with all of us, He has insistently placed me in the midst of those particular lives, without whom, I could not be(come) pleasing to Him. I would not love people as I do now if I had refused to “assemble” where He willed. “Going” to (attending) Church has never been the way I think about this, even though I have “gone to church,” regularly and irregularly during different seasons of life. Just tonight I met with a small group I'm involved with, and one of the members is a dearly loved friend of more than 70 years. Certainly you must be able to tell from my other posts that I see little (really, no) distinction between Christ and His Body (how we relate to others reveals our relationship with Him).

I was a failure in my (youthful) first marriage having not Jesus in my life. He gave me an amazing and beautiful daughter in that marriage who has gone on to be with Him ahead of me. I was single for 20 years with no intent, or desire, to marry again. I never expected it would be the Lord's will that I should. Next month I will have been married 27 years, and I have an amazing and wonderful 25 year old son.

As a father it is wonderful to have this ever present (fleshly) reminder of the love of our Father.

It is in that love that we love each other.

User avatar
darinhouston
Posts: 3112
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Who is the Alpha & Omega?

Post by darinhouston » Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:03 am

Homer wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:30 am
Methinks this thread has wandered far away from where it began. I must have missed something - what's the point of how often a person goes to church, how long they've been married, & c?

Next month, Lord willing, I'll be 83 and married 63 years.
Well, it was just a bit of humanity - knowing who we are engaging with on a more personal level. Sorry for the diversion, Homer. It wandered away from the original topic a LONG time ago.

User avatar
dwight92070
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:09 am

Re: Who is the Alpha & Omega?

Post by dwight92070 » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:13 am

Otherness,
I will get back to you. I have workers here building a shed in my backyard, so it's pretty busy right now. Thanks for your response.

User avatar
dwight92070
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:09 am

Re: Who is the Alpha & Omega?

Post by dwight92070 » Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:41 pm

Okay, let's get into the weeds, with your mystical and baffling statements.

I hope to minimize the length of this (I hate LONG posts) by just quoting the first few words of your sentences, and not the whole sentence, so you'll know which sentence I'm referring to.

"Logic can be a very slithery thing ..."

It can be those things, but it doesn't have to be. " ... walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh." Galatians 5:16 You seem to assume that using our logic ALWAYS produces those things. Logic is NOT listed as a work of the flesh: Galatians 5:19-21

How does logic "work it's way from Creator to creation?"

We know that God created man with a brain, and therefore, logic. There's no transmission of logic CONTINUALLY happening from God to His creation, as your statement suggests. Yes, we might discern that God is speaking to us occasionally, but normally we follow the leading of our brain, our logic. Your statement suggests a frequent or even continual transfer of logic, which I don't see in the Bible - it's NITB (not in the Bible).

How does logic "work it's way from beginning to end, or from alpha to omega?"

This makes no sense - it's nonsense. It's NITB

"There is only an "I"".

You just mentioned "YHWH", which means "I AM WHO I AM", which is God's name, so why would you now just call Him "I"? There's no one in the Bible called "I", so why would you distort His name like that, other than to make more complicated whatever it is you have to say about "I"? This way of speaking about Him is NITB.

""I" does not exist in "space" of any kind."

This also makes no sense. But I will try to take a stab at it, nonetheless. Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father, which means there is space between them. God passed before Moses, so that Moses could "see His back", which implies that God occupied space. God appeared to Abraham as a man, so He occupied space. Your statement is NITB, so it's a statement of your own making.

"There is no space."

Again, nonsense, and NITB. Obviously, there IS space.

"There is nowhere for God to speak His words into, that is not His own being."

This too, makes no sense, but I will try anyway. God spoke His words into the earth. The earth is NOT His own being. NITB.

"There is no space within which a distinct creation can exist."

I exist in my home, which is a space. I am a distinct creation. NITB.

"Forget the evidence the material world imposes (dictates) through our five senses ... on our mind, the TRUTH is that we live and move and have our being in Him ....by the manifestations of His thoughts ..."

Does that mean that our five senses and evidence from them are NOT TRUE? No, it does not mean that. God created everything by speaking a word, possibly a manifestation of His thoughts - we don't know- but He is NOT doing that NOW. At least, it's NITB.

This is getting long and I'm really tired of refuting statements that are either NITB or make no sense, or both. So I will just list the remainder of your statements, with quick comments.
"How does God make room in His being for Creation?" Doesn't make sense. Not mentioned in the Bible. NITB.
"Remember there is no act of creation yet." I guess I didn't get the memo. I thought creation already happened. NITB.
" ...generates the reality of Otherness in His being." NITB
"The Trinity allows "otherness" to be real." NITB
"God is Other Himself." NITB
"The emptiness in the Being of God is the waters of Genesis." NITB Totally made up.
"It is here that His express thoughts take form - in that place that is not Him." Nonsense, NITB
"The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Father. It is this NOT-NESS that is the spiritual existence of the NOTHING, in which Creation is made." Nonsense, meaningless. NITB.
"The Alpha (Father/Son) yields the Omega (Father/the Fullness of the Son,His Body.)"NITB

I count 18 NITB's! If you're attempting to spiritually edify anybody at all, you're going to fail if you don't stick to what the Bible says, instead of mystical concepts and supposed spiritual wisdom, which is extremely difficult to follow. Let me remind you that I was not the only one who had trouble comprehending your post. Darin, who is not a new believer, couldn't (easily) follow it either. In fact, I would guess that the majority of mature believers would not be able to follow your statements. So, right there, you are violating a scriptural principle (pretty much an apostolic command) that Paul, himself, advocated and modeled: to make the preaching of the gospel CLEAR, AS HE SAID HE OUGHT TO. Colossians 4:4 Even Jesus Himself was making sure that His disciples UNDERSTOOD His explanation of His words: Matthew 13:51 So, if you (and all of us) are to be more like Jesus, then why would you speak, using such confusing and more often than not, unbiblical statements? Paul said that whoever does not come with sound words (1 Timothy 6:3)(2 Timothy 1:15) is conceited and understands nothing. So why do you talk that way, when neither Paul or Jesus did, especially since you demonstrated that you can talk the normal way, like the rest of us?

dizerner

Re: Who is the Alpha & Omega?

Post by dizerner » Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:27 am

Much of Scripture is written in a non-intellectual, poetical style, I really don't get getting all riled up about it. I don't agree with a lot of Other's points, but I'm not condemning him and upset about the way he writes, it's just silly.

Paul said his Gospel did not come in "word only," so to imply that words only can make things clear, denies the need for supernatural revelation, and is a manifestation of unbelief, and is definitely "not in the Bible."

The natural man DOES NOT UNDERSTAND the things of God for they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED.

It's just being stuffy and committing the very sin of being puffed up that one is condemning in another, as if any of us had all the answers or got everything perfectly, or didn't need supernatural help.

I recommend more humility and love in these interactions and less jumping to nitpick and condemn every thing one can find. It doesn't mean compromising truth to focus on these things.

Peace.

User avatar
dwight92070
Posts: 1550
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:09 am

Re: Who is the Alpha & Omega?

Post by dwight92070 » Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:19 am

dizerner wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:27 am
Much of Scripture is written in a non-intellectual, poetical style, I really don't get getting all riled up about it. I don't agree with a lot of Other's points, but I'm not condemning him and upset about the way he writes, it's just silly.

Dwight -"Conceited and understands nothing" were Paul's words, not mine. Are you going to condemn Paul for getting all riled up too? Or just me because I quoted him?

Paul said his Gospel did not come in "word only," so to imply that words only can make things clear, denies the need for supernatural revelation, and is a manifestation of unbelief, and is definitely "not in the Bible."

Dwight - Not in "word only", but it wasn't without words either. Where did I say that "words only" make things clear? Where did I deny supernatural revelation? I acknowledge and desire that. But that's God's part - I can't do that. What I can do is speak the truth, and then pray that God will do His part. But where does it say that God will do His part without us speaking the words of truth - the gospel of the kingdom?

The natural man DOES NOT UNDERSTAND the things of God for they are SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED.

Dwight - If that were true 100% of the time, then no one would ever get saved. That passage also says that the natural man thinks that the things of God are foolishness, so that particular man has a contempt towards the gospel. Thank God that not all unbelievers have that contempt toward God.

It's just being stuffy and committing the very sin of being puffed up that one is condemning in another, as if any of us had all the answers or got everything perfectly, or didn't need supernatural help.

Dwight - "A scoffer does not love one who reproves him." Proverbs 15:12
"Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you, reprove a wise man, and he will love you. Proverbs 9:8



I recommend more humility and love in these interactions and less jumping to nitpick and condemn every thing one can find. It doesn't mean compromising truth to focus on these things.

Peace.

Post Reply

Return to “Theology Proper, Christology, Pneumatology”