How Many Saviors Are There?

God, Christ, & The Holy Spirit
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dwight92070
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Re: How Many Saviors Are There?

Post by dwight92070 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:09 pm

Paidion wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:08 am
In his prayer, Jesus himself addressed his Father as the ONLY true God.

When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. (John 17:1-3 ESV)

"AND Jesus Christ whom you have sent."
So clearly Jesus did not consider himself to be God—rather God's Son, the One that the only true God sent into the world.
Dwight - Let's cross-reference the above verse with John 14:10-11 and rephrase it as follows: "And this is eternal live, that they know You the only true God (the Father Who is in Jesus, His Son), and Jesus Christ (the Son Who is in the Father, God) whom You have sent." Whenever you come across "the Father" in scripture, you always think of a singular entity, but according to John 14, the Father always has His Son dwelling in Him. Likewise Jesus is not a singular entity, because He always has the Father dwelling in Him.

Dwight - And no, it's not the same as the Father and/or Jesus dwelling in us. Jesus said, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." NONE of us can say that.

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Homer
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Re: How Many Saviors Are There?

Post by Homer » Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:21 pm

Darin,

You posted:
This article makes some additional points which are well worth considering, especially in the context of the Isaiah 42 passage and the immediate context of Israel....

https://www.angelfire.com/space/thegosp ... h42_8.html
The man who wrote that doesn't seem to want his name known but he apparently goes by the name of "Kel". Anyway the following is a trinitarian response to his claims, Some of which are rather strange:


https://trinitydelusion.org/

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darinhouston
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Re: How Many Saviors Are There?

Post by darinhouston » Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:43 am

Homer wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:21 pm
Darin,

You posted:
This article makes some additional points which are well worth considering, especially in the context of the Isaiah 42 passage and the immediate context of Israel....

https://www.angelfire.com/space/thegosp ... h42_8.html
The man who wrote that doesn't seem to want his name known but he apparently goes by the name of "Kel". Anyway the following is a trinitarian response to his claims, Some of which are rather strange:


https://trinitydelusion.org/
Yes, I'm aware of that site as well. Some of "brother Kel's" arguments are a bit unusual, but not all of them. Some of them are quite well thought out and are pretty thorough. Baby and bath water, etc. The question is not whether he is a trusted authority (I concede he is not) but whether the arguments he presents in this case are sound. I'm happy to hear your thoughts on the latter. I thought it was an interesting approach to this question. My approach was much simpler, but less thorough. No one doubts the immediate context of Isaiah 42 in connection with the nation of Israel, but also the additional (if not primary) connection to Jesus. But, where to draw those lines and how far to carry forward the literal references in prophetic texts is always a challenge.

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dwight92070
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Re: How Many Saviors Are There?

Post by dwight92070 » Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:42 pm

I'm not convinced that Isaiah 42:8 or Isaiah 48:11 EVEN NEED a context to be understood correctly. The verses stand alone - the context does not change their meaning. In my opinion, requiring a context only serves to distract from their meaning, because their meaning is self-evident. It does not matter who or what "another" is. What matters is that the Lord will not give His glory to another, but He DID give it to Jesus, SO JESUS IS NOT ANOTHER. HE IS THE LORD GOD.

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