darinhouston wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:13 am
The question is whether it uniquely refers to God, but we have disagreed on this before.
Dwight -Isaiah 44:6 uniquely refers to God: "I am the first and the last, AND THERE IS NO GOD BESIDES ME
Dwight - Also Isaiah 48:12 uniquely refers to God. All you have to do is read the first eleven verses to know that.
Dwight - So if "I am the first and the last" uniquely refers to God, then it also refers to Him in Revelation, where Jesus is speaking. If God and Jesus BOTH claim to be "the first and the last", either one of them is lying. or they are BOTH GOD.
How Many Gods are there?
- dwight92070
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Re: How Many Gods are there?
Re: How Many Gods are there?
Or more accurately, "Both are divine." Strictly speaking,the word "God" applies to the Father alone.dwight wrote:If God and Jesus BOTH claim to be "the first and the last", either one of them is lying. or they are BOTH GOD.
My father's name was "Gordon". I am not Gordon, but like Gordon, I also am human.
So Jesus, like the Father who begat him, is also divine.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
- dwight92070
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Re: How Many Gods are there?
Homer, have you noticed that neither Paidon nor Darin have commented on the following post? Most likely it is because there is no logical answer, other than the obvious, that Jesus is God.
Dwight92070 » Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:33 am
How much are we to love God?
The greatest commandment is:
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.
Now let's look at how much we are to love Jesus:
Luke 14:26 - "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate (by comparison of his love for Me) his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."
Both God and Jesus demand the utmost love, more than anything or anyone else. Yet that degree of love is ONLY RESERVED FOR GOD HIMSELF.
If Jesus was not God, then He is asking us to commit idolatry by loving Him and God EQUALLY.
Yet Jesus demands the SAME devotion to Him, as God demands that we give to Him.
Jesus is saying that HE IS GOD.
Dwight92070 » Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:33 am
How much are we to love God?
The greatest commandment is:
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.
Now let's look at how much we are to love Jesus:
Luke 14:26 - "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate (by comparison of his love for Me) his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."
Both God and Jesus demand the utmost love, more than anything or anyone else. Yet that degree of love is ONLY RESERVED FOR GOD HIMSELF.
If Jesus was not God, then He is asking us to commit idolatry by loving Him and God EQUALLY.
Yet Jesus demands the SAME devotion to Him, as God demands that we give to Him.
Jesus is saying that HE IS GOD.
Re: How Many Gods are there?
Jesus explained to the Pharisees why they should love him—not because he was God, but because he CAME from God.
Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. (John 8:42 ESV)
Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. (John 8:42 ESV)
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
- dwight92070
- Posts: 1550
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:09 am
Re: How Many Gods are there?
He also explained how much His disciples should love Him - the same love that they have for God, Who alone deserves that degree of love, making it clear that He is God.
- darinhouston
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Re: How Many Gods are there?
I am traveling with very little internet -- I don't recall this question, but it seems kind of silly. Are we to love God more than He loves us? Aren't we to love others as God loves us? (even if we aren't capable, that is the model, no?). This just makes no sense as an argument to me.dwight92070 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 7:43 amHomer, have you noticed that neither Paidon nor Darin have commented on the following post? Most likely it is because there is no logical answer, other than the obvious, that Jesus is God.
Dwight92070 » Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:33 am
How much are we to love God?
The greatest commandment is:
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.
Now let's look at how much we are to love Jesus:
Luke 14:26 - "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate (by comparison of his love for Me) his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."
Both God and Jesus demand the utmost love, more than anything or anyone else. Yet that degree of love is ONLY RESERVED FOR GOD HIMSELF.
If Jesus was not God, then He is asking us to commit idolatry by loving Him and God EQUALLY.
Yet Jesus demands the SAME devotion to Him, as God demands that we give to Him.
Jesus is saying that HE IS GOD.
- dwight92070
- Posts: 1550
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:09 am
Re: How Many Gods are there?
Maybe I'm not making myself clear. I'll try to state my point more concisely.
God demands the utmost love from us - a greater love than we have for anything or anyone else.
Jesus demands the SAME - our utmost love, more than we love our closest family members, or even ourselves - i.e. more that we love anything or anyone else.
If Jesus is truly not God, then His demand for the same degree of love that is reserved ONLY for God, seems out of line and just plain wrong.
On the other hand, if He truly is God, then His demand for that degree of love, is totally in agreement with God's demand, because they are one and the same.
God demands the utmost love from us - a greater love than we have for anything or anyone else.
Jesus demands the SAME - our utmost love, more than we love our closest family members, or even ourselves - i.e. more that we love anything or anyone else.
If Jesus is truly not God, then His demand for the same degree of love that is reserved ONLY for God, seems out of line and just plain wrong.
On the other hand, if He truly is God, then His demand for that degree of love, is totally in agreement with God's demand, because they are one and the same.
Re: How Many Gods are there?
NONE of the passages you quoted, state that Jesus demanded that His disciples have the same degree of love for Himself, as for His Father.Dwight, you wrote:If Jesus is truly not God, then His demand for the same degree of love that is reserved ONLY for God, seems out of line and just plain wrong.
Paidion
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.
Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.
- dwight92070
- Posts: 1550
- Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:09 am
Re: How Many Gods are there?
Paidion wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 2:33 pmNONE of the passages you quoted, state that Jesus demanded that His disciples have the same degree of love for Himself, as for His Father.Dwight, you wrote:If Jesus is truly not God, then His demand for the same degree of love that is reserved ONLY for God, seems out of line and just plain wrong.
Dwight - Oh, but they do. To love Jesus more than your father, your mother, your sons, your daughters, your brothers, your sisters, your wife, your husband, and even your self, IS THE SAME AS LOVING HIM WITH ALL OF YOUR HEART, SOUL, MIND, AND STRENGTH.