Who is Our Savior?

God, Christ, & The Holy Spirit
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Paidion
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Re: Who is Our Savior?

Post by Paidion » Mon May 10, 2021 6:34 pm

Darin, you wrote:But, even Arius and other non-trinitarians believed in pre-existence as the Son, but they (along with many of the early Church Fathers) were not Trinitarian in the modern sense of eternal co-equal godhead.
RIGHT!
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

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dwight92070
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Re: Who is Our Savior?

Post by dwight92070 » Mon May 10, 2021 10:28 pm

Hosea 13:4 I guess the Lord God forgot about the judges. It's a good thing that you smart men are able to correct Him. Where would we be without your wisdom?

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dwight92070
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Re: Who is Our Savior?

Post by dwight92070 » Mon May 10, 2021 11:01 pm

Paul said that God is our Savior in Titus 1:3, 2:10, and 3:4. Yet he also said that Jesus is our Savior in Titus 1:4, 2:13, and 3:6. How could that be? Hmmm ...

Apparently Paul forgot about the judges of Israel or I'm sure he would have included them too.

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dwight92070
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Re: Who is Our Savior?

Post by dwight92070 » Tue May 11, 2021 8:11 am

Also, I guess Paul didn't get the memo that there is only one Savior. Isaiah 43:11, Hosea 13:4

commonsense
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Re: Who is Our Savior?

Post by commonsense » Tue May 11, 2021 11:56 am

darinhouston wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 11:05 pm
From https://www.angelfire.com/space/thegosp ... 43_11.html


1. What? There is no Savior besides WHO?
Trinitarians are unwittingly refuting themselves with claims like these. When it says, "there is no Savior besides ME" it doesn't seem to occur to Trinitarians who that ME is. If "ME" is the Triune God then "ME" is not the Father nor Jesus nor the Holy Spirit since each of these three is one person and the Triune God is a three person being. Neither the Father nor the Son, nor the HS, is a three person being. None of these three are the Triune God and the Triune God is none of these three. So WHO exactly are Trinitarians suggesting is the speaker in this verse? There isn't even an option they can choose which will not deny their own doctrine. If they say "ME" is the Father, then Jesus and the Holy Spirit are excluded. And the same goes for claiming either of the other two is the speaker. If they say "ME" is the Triune God, then neither the Father is not our only Savior, the Son is not our only Savior, the HS is not our only Savior, BECAUSE none of these three are a three-person being. Being a member of the Triune God does not mean you ARE the Triune God anymore than being a member of the Beatles means Ringo Starr IS the Beatles. The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, and the three-person-being are four different identities. So WHO is "ME" in this verse? They have no answer which will work for their doctrine. This Trinitarian claim is self refuting. But what is more troubling is, "Why is this obvious fact not obvious to them?"
Because you can't put new wine into an old wine skin. Once raised in a certain belief, it's hard for people to accept any other. That's why the teaching to a new generation is so important.

Dwight doesn't even see that he's changed the doctrine that he claims is true.
dwight92070 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 11:01 pm
Paul said that God is our Savior in Titus 1:3, 2:10, and 3:4. Yet he also said that Jesus is our Savior in Titus 1:4, 2:13, and 3:6. How could that be?
If Jesus is God, and Jesus is the only Savior and Jesus is the one who has created all things on earth and in heaven, then where's the Father and the Holy Spirit in all of this?

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dwight92070
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Re: Who is Our Savior?

Post by dwight92070 » Tue May 11, 2021 12:24 pm

Commonsense,

Your mistake and the mistake of the angelfire.com person, and others on this thread who agree, is that you all think you can understand the infinite God and how He functions. You're using your finite mind to simply speculate about what you think would take place, if indeed there is a Trinity. You and I cannot even fathom the inner "workings" of God Himself, yet you pretend to know. All such speculation is pride and arrogance, which goes before a fall, unless you repent.

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Homer
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Re: Who is Our Savior?

Post by Homer » Tue May 11, 2021 1:28 pm

Dwight has hit the nail on the head. We exist in a physical world, God is spirit. All we know of that other spirit domain is what has been revealed to us in scripture. We know nothing of what relationships can exist in that other realm.

The testimony of the Old Testament is clear. There is but one God who is Lord and Savior. The New Testament tells us throughout that Jesus is Lord and Savior. God became incarnate, a man, God's Son, who He will forever be. It is admitted that He is deity and then claimed He is not God. This is simply a dodge. A deity is a God. Either we have two who are God or we have a trinity or binity.

commonsense
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Re: Who is Our Savior?

Post by commonsense » Tue May 11, 2021 6:36 pm

Homer wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:28 pm
All we know of that other spirit domain is what has been revealed to us in scripture.
On the contrary, " Because what may be known of god is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made."

God gave us a reasoning mind for a purpose, to be able to distinguish between that which is true and that which is false. We also grow in wisdom through experience.
Homer wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:28 pm
We exist in a physical world, God is spirit.
This is true. God is not a man, nor are human beings God. There is a higher Spirit and power that exists that is other than ourselves. So, since Jesus was a man, I conclude that He is not God. I don't speculate otherwise.
dwight92070 wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 12:24 pm
you all think you can understand the infinite God and how He functions. You're using your finite mind to simply speculate about what you think would take place, if indeed there is a Trinity. You and I cannot even fathom the inner "workings" of God Himself, yet you pretend to know.
No, I don't pretend to know. God is not a man, therefore Jesus was not God. That's as far as I go. I am aware of the fact that people use literary tools such as personification, metaphors, figurative words etc. when writing and also in common everyday speech to describe things. And I keep this in mind when I'm reading the Bible.

Furthermore, in looking at the creation, I see there's only one of everything. No two things are EXACTLY alike, because this is what makes each and every one of us an individual. This goes for all other things as well. This being the case, I conclude that there's only one God.

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Paidion
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Re: Who is Our Savior?

Post by Paidion » Wed May 12, 2021 9:30 am

Dwight wrote:Hosea 13:4 I guess the Lord God forgot about the judges. It's a good thing that you smart men are able to correct Him. Where would we be without your wisdom?
Your bits of sarcasm do nothing to serve your position that Jesus is God.

In the days that Hosea wrote, the Father was the only saviour. Jesus didn't appear on earth as Saviour until much later.
He became our Saviour through his death on our behalf.
Paidion

Man judges a person by his past deeds, and administers penalties for his wrongdoing. God judges a person by his present character, and disciplines him that he may become righteous.

Avatar shows me at 75 years old. I am now 83.

commonsense
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Re: Who is Our Savior?

Post by commonsense » Wed May 12, 2021 12:58 pm

Homer wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:28 pm
We know nothing of what relationships can exist in that other realm.
Homer, this is true. The Trinity is speculation.
Homer wrote:
Tue May 11, 2021 1:28 pm
It is admitted that He is deity and then claimed He is not God. This is simply a dodge. A deity is a God.
Deity- having divine nature, qualities of God.

If you are a temple of the Holy Spirit, then you have the divine nature of God.
Psalms; "You are gods, and sons of the Most High."
Being a son of God, or God's son doesn't make you God.

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